Compared to Prisoner Katrina Cornwell or Mirror Crusher, both of whom have three skills and DIP as secondary, Lissan does not impress me with the level of her DIP which is her primarily.
Compared to Prisoner Katrina Cornwell or Mirror Crusher, both of whom have three skills and DIP as secondary, Lissan does not impress me with the level of her DIP which is her primarily.
Yeah, I'm not going for her, just thresholds and I'm out
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I was semi-excited for Landry, but I'm not hurting for SEC gauntlet people and that's her only stat which is good in gauntlet, and her bases don't reach a significant threshold for me.
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The comment above by Unkie B should clear things up. They are a subspecies with distinct physiological differences that are more than skin deep, end of story.
Thanks to Shan for removing the racist comments and getting the thread back on track.
As if Shran was a geneticist. Judging from the comments on this thread, people getting race and species mixed up, etc etc it is not entirely certain that "a kind of sub-species" should be taken as gospel. Since they haven't had contact for some long period of time, and keep themselves largely separate, how likely is it that even the Andorians / Aenar know how different genetically they are? Since they can clearly easily interbreed (Talla, Thelin http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Thelin_th'Valrass) I'm not convinced at all!
As I said above, Humans and Vulcans can interbreed. That means something in my field of Biology, but it doesn't hold any water in the Star Trek universe.
To me, the incredible telepathic abilities of the Aenar mean that they are probably more of a distant relative than a recent branch off of the evolutionary tree. If the latter were the case, you would surely see some residual of telepathic ability in Andorians.
Of course, this is a rather silly conversation, but I'm enjoying it nonetheless.
Was there an Enterprise episode or two where they tried to explain that Humans and Vulcans couldn't originally interbreed and Phlox was working on figuring it out*? I could be remembering incorrectly, been a while.
*I'm not saying that makes any more sense, for the record.
As I mentioned in a different post. @Dirk Gunderson
Mentions in this post, the Enterprise episode with two enterprises is Captained by Lorian the son of T’Pol and Tucker.
In Terra Prime episodes: Phlox (when the baby dies) makes comment, that Vulcan and human DNA are incompatible. Later in episode, Tucker tells T’Pol that Phlox said there was a problem with the cloning process and Human and Vulcan DNA is compatible. But all of this is a writing mistake since they know from Lorian that Vulcans and humans can have children.
The comment above by Unkie B should clear things up. They are a subspecies with distinct physiological differences that are more than skin deep, end of story.
Thanks to Shan for removing the racist comments and getting the thread back on track.
As if Shran was a geneticist. Judging from the comments on this thread, people getting race and species mixed up, etc etc it is not entirely certain that "a kind of sub-species" should be taken as gospel. Since they haven't had contact for some long period of time, and keep themselves largely separate, how likely is it that even the Andorians / Aenar know how different genetically they are? Since they can clearly easily interbreed (Talla, Thelin http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Thelin_th'Valrass) I'm not convinced at all!
As I said above, Humans and Vulcans can interbreed. That means something in my field of Biology, but it doesn't hold any water in the Star Trek universe.
To me, the incredible telepathic abilities of the Aenar mean that they are probably more of a distant relative than a recent branch off of the evolutionary tree. If the latter were the case, you would surely see some residual of telepathic ability in Andorians.
Of course, this is a rather silly conversation, but I'm enjoying it nonetheless.
Was there an Enterprise episode or two where they tried to explain that Humans and Vulcans couldn't originally interbreed and Phlox was working on figuring it out*? I could be remembering incorrectly, been a while.
*I'm not saying that makes any more sense, for the record.
As I mentioned in a different post. @Dirk Gunderson
Mentions in this post, the Enterprise episode with two enterprises is Captained by Lorian the son of T’Pol and Tucker.
In Terra Prime episodes: Phlox (when the baby dies) makes comment, that Vulcan and human DNA are incompatible. Later in episode, Tucker tells T’Pol that Phlox said there was a problem with the cloning process and Human and Vulcan DNA is compatible. But all of this is a writing mistake since they know from Lorian that Vulcans and humans can have children.
It was all bad writing choices to justify the death of the baby. The writers knew that Vulcans and Humans could have children since Spock existed 40 years earlier.
It was all bad writing choices to justify the death of the baby. The writers knew that Vulcans and Humans could have children since Spock existed 40 years earlier.
I’m not sure I follow your point here. The writers absolutely flubbed when they had Phlox initially say that human and Vulcan DNA is compatible - they know it is because they met Lorian the year before (an argument could be made that the successful transit of the subspace vortex means they’d have no memory of someone who never existed, which is a whole other side discussion for another time). The baby died because of a mistake that Terra Prime’s scientists made when creating her.
Saying that attributing baby Elizabeth’s to a cloning problem was a mistake because the writers know that human/Vulcan hybrids are possible because Spock existed doesn’t make sense because they don’t have anything to do with one another.
I am still puzzled by the choice of Lissan over Jhamel? Lissan was only in one scene, maybe 2, and Jhamel was a critical character throughout the episode. This is fresh in my mind since I only saw the episode a few days ago.
I guess it's just like so many other characters DB gives us from single scenes/moments in a single episode lasting only seconds, over more important characters we actually want/need?! (IMHO)
DB prioritizes characters with title/significance over characters on the screen. It's like using Kortar as a mega event character when he was in one VOY episode and
I am still puzzled by the choice of Lissan over Jhamel? Lissan was only in one scene, maybe 2, and Jhamel was a critical character throughout the episode. This is fresh in my mind since I only saw the episode a few days ago.
I guess it's just like so many other characters DB gives us from single scenes/moments in a single episode lasting only seconds, over more important characters we actually want/need?! (IMHO)
Lissan
Jhamel
I am disappointed too but it may not have been DB's choice. They may not have been able to get the rights to Jhamel.
Time Loop Mudd
FE 1/4 level 100
DIP 195 (125-257)
ENG 483 (158-379)
SEC 480 (31-62)
Commander Ellen Landry
FE 1/4 level 100
CMD 317 (69-238)
SEC 356 (254-669)
SCI 227 (57-111)
I need to see Lissan's stats immortalized before I know whether to drop money. But I don't think she is worth it. She might have a nice boost range, but her base stat seems low, I doubt it will go much beyond 1100, which isnt impressive for the primary stat on a duo stat legendary.
I always thought Lorca was confused in having Landry as head of security, shame she never managed to kill my evil twin sister. I think he only liked her because she was loyal and a bit psychotic. Next time the Romulans won't make the same mistake in using such a flawed character to destroy the Federation!
Compared to Prisoner Katrina Cornwell or Mirror Crusher, both of whom have three skills and DIP as secondary, Lissan does not impress me with the level of her DIP which is her primarily.
ya i have to say not thrilled with the choices, bought most of the event packs for last several events to ff most of the golds ,
but barley even rember that one episode, stats are really in the tank, arts pretty rough
between this week and last weeks events first time in a month or two i have not bought the 99 and 49 for the 5*
I am still puzzled by the choice of Lissan over Jhamel? Lissan was only in one scene, maybe 2, and Jhamel was a critical character throughout the episode. This is fresh in my mind since I only saw the episode a few days ago.
I guess it's just like so many other characters DB gives us from single scenes/moments in a single episode lasting only seconds, over more important characters we actually want/need?! (IMHO)
Lissan
Jhamel
I am disappointed too but it may not have been DB's choice. They may not have been able to get the rights to Jhamel.
But wasn't Lissan more the main representative or even possible leader of the Aenar, if memory serves me correct?
What bugs me is the script of her describes her as a physician so naturally science and/or medical skills go out the window...
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But wasn't Lissan more the main representative or even possible leader of the Aenar, if memory serves me correct?
What bugs me is the script of her describes her as a physician so naturally science and/or medical skills go out the window...
The Aenar really don’t have a government or permanent leaders, though Lissan was chosen to be the “speaker” for the Aenar when Archer and Shran visited their city.
The comment above by Unkie B should clear things up. They are a subspecies with distinct physiological differences that are more than skin deep, end of story.
Thanks to Shan for removing the racist comments and getting the thread back on track.
As if Shran was a geneticist. Judging from the comments on this thread, people getting race and species mixed up, etc etc it is not entirely certain that "a kind of sub-species" should be taken as gospel. Since they haven't had contact for some long period of time, and keep themselves largely separate, how likely is it that even the Andorians / Aenar know how different genetically they are? Since they can clearly easily interbreed (Talla, Thelin http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Thelin_th'Valrass) I'm not convinced at all!
As I said above, Humans and Vulcans can interbreed. That means something in my field of Biology, but it doesn't hold any water in the Star Trek universe.
To me, the incredible telepathic abilities of the Aenar mean that they are probably more of a distant relative than a recent branch off of the evolutionary tree. If the latter were the case, you would surely see some residual of telepathic ability in Andorians.
Of course, this is a rather silly conversation, but I'm enjoying it nonetheless.
Was there an Enterprise episode or two where they tried to explain that Humans and Vulcans couldn't originally interbreed and Phlox was working on figuring it out*? I could be remembering incorrectly, been a while.
*I'm not saying that makes any more sense, for the record.
They had their DNA stolen and a child was born (in a surrogate?), but it died as an infant because of genetic anomalies or something. Obviously that was figured out in the near future, before Spock was born.
The baby died because of faulty cloning procedures. Phlox later told Trip and T'Pol that there was no biological reason vulcans and humans couldn't mate and have a healthy child.
Compared to Prisoner Katrina Cornwell or Mirror Crusher, both of whom have three skills and DIP as secondary, Lissan does not impress me with the level of her DIP which is her primarily.
Yeah, I'm not going for her, just thresholds and I'm out
Same here. I'll finish off my Prisoner Cornwell, get all 4 copies of Landry (not because I want the character but because it's a gauranteed 4 stars), and I'm done. I have zero desire for any of the ranked reward characters and won't bother trying. Did the same thing last event.
I am still puzzled by the choice of Lissan over Jhamel? Lissan was only in one scene, maybe 2, and Jhamel was a critical character throughout the episode. This is fresh in my mind since I only saw the episode a few days ago.
I guess it's just like so many other characters DB gives us from single scenes/moments in a single episode lasting only seconds, over more important characters we actually want/need?! (IMHO)
Lissan
Jhamel
I am disappointed too but it may not have been DB's choice. They may not have been able to get the rights to Jhamel.
Nope, it was DBs choice. Jhamel is included in the standard licensing with Enterprise. DB just makes a lot of choices that many of us find questionable at times.
There's really no arguing than Lissan is a more appropriate character than Jhamel. Lissan just happened to be the one chosen at the time to present a face to Archer and Shran. If it were up to her, the Aenars wouldn't have anything to do with the Andorians or Humans, or any outsiders. Jhamel is the true representative for the (sub)species to the world, interacting with it and looking for her brother.
Lissan is literally just filler and a minor plot bump to give Jhamel something to overcome to join Archer and Shran.
I am still puzzled by the choice of Lissan over Jhamel? Lissan was only in one scene, maybe 2, and Jhamel was a critical character throughout the episode. This is fresh in my mind since I only saw the episode a few days ago.
I guess it's just like so many other characters DB gives us from single scenes/moments in a single episode lasting only seconds, over more important characters we actually want/need?! (IMHO)
Lissan
Jhamel
I am disappointed too but it may not have been DB's choice. They may not have been able to get the rights to Jhamel.
Nope, it was DBs choice. Jhamel is included in the standard licensing with Enterprise. DB just makes a lot of choices that many of us find questionable at times.
There's really no arguing than Lissan is a more appropriate character than Jhamel. Lissan just happened to be the one chosen at the time to present a face to Archer and Shran. If it were up to her, the Aenars wouldn't have anything to do with the Andorians or Humans, or any outsiders. Jhamel is the true representative for the (sub)species to the world, interacting with it and looking for her brother.
Lissan is literally just filler and a minor plot bump to give Jhamel something to overcome to join Archer and Shran.
Are you positive that they have general licensing to all the characters? In the past they have said they need specific actors' permissions.
I am still puzzled by the choice of Lissan over Jhamel? Lissan was only in one scene, maybe 2, and Jhamel was a critical character throughout the episode. This is fresh in my mind since I only saw the episode a few days ago.
I guess it's just like so many other characters DB gives us from single scenes/moments in a single episode lasting only seconds, over more important characters we actually want/need?! (IMHO)
Lissan
Jhamel
I am disappointed too but it may not have been DB's choice. They may not have been able to get the rights to Jhamel.
Nope, it was DBs choice. Jhamel is included in the standard licensing with Enterprise. DB just makes a lot of choices that many of us find questionable at times.
There's really no arguing than Lissan is a more appropriate character than Jhamel. Lissan just happened to be the one chosen at the time to present a face to Archer and Shran. If it were up to her, the Aenars wouldn't have anything to do with the Andorians or Humans, or any outsiders. Jhamel is the true representative for the (sub)species to the world, interacting with it and looking for her brother.
Lissan is literally just filler and a minor plot bump to give Jhamel something to overcome to join Archer and Shran.
Are you positive that they have general licensing to all the characters? In the past they have said they need specific actors' permissions.
I believe you’re correct. You need an actor’s permission to use their likeness.
It’s possible that main cast members have somehow signed that kind of permission into a contract of some sort, but a guest star wouldn’t have.
Having rights to use the creative content of Star Trek is different from having rights to using a particular person’s image.
Other ST games have her likeness with just a blanket license agreement with CBS, no negotiation with the actor. Some actors one off negotiate that you need their specific permission, but that's been relatively rare in the Star Trek universe from what I've seen.
I am still puzzled by the choice of Lissan over Jhamel? Lissan was only in one scene, maybe 2, and Jhamel was a critical character throughout the episode. This is fresh in my mind since I only saw the episode a few days ago.
I guess it's just like so many other characters DB gives us from single scenes/moments in a single episode lasting only seconds, over more important characters we actually want/need?! (IMHO)
Lissan
Jhamel
I am disappointed too but it may not have been DB's choice. They may not have been able to get the rights to Jhamel.
Nope, it was DBs choice. Jhamel is included in the standard licensing with Enterprise. DB just makes a lot of choices that many of us find questionable at times.
There's really no arguing than Lissan is a more appropriate character than Jhamel. Lissan just happened to be the one chosen at the time to present a face to Archer and Shran. If it were up to her, the Aenars wouldn't have anything to do with the Andorians or Humans, or any outsiders. Jhamel is the true representative for the (sub)species to the world, interacting with it and looking for her brother.
Lissan is literally just filler and a minor plot bump to give Jhamel something to overcome to join Archer and Shran.
Are you positive that they have general licensing to all the characters? In the past they have said they need specific actors' permissions.
I think it depends on the actor's original contract with the showrunners. It's possible that the later series included a clause of "we retain the right to license your likeness within the context of this property" or somesuch thing (I'm not a lawyer), just to make merchandising etc easier, whereas with the older series (and possibly with guest actors), they didn't include a similar clause in their contract.
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There's really no arguing than Lissan is a more appropriate character than Jhamel.
Its almost like we don't have to get the best version of every character immediately. Lissan was an important element of one episode. There's nothing wrong with that.
Every week I could start a massively hyperbolic post demanding the immediate release of Poison Crossbow Picard (aka Best Picard). Or I could just wait. What would things be like if the coolest version of every character was already released? How exciting would things be then?
The comment above by Unkie B should clear things up. They are a subspecies with distinct physiological differences that are more than skin deep, end of story.
Thanks to Shan for removing the racist comments and getting the thread back on track.
As if Shran was a geneticist. Judging from the comments on this thread, people getting race and species mixed up, etc etc it is not entirely certain that "a kind of sub-species" should be taken as gospel. Since they haven't had contact for some long period of time, and keep themselves largely separate, how likely is it that even the Andorians / Aenar know how different genetically they are? Since they can clearly easily interbreed (Talla, Thelin http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Thelin_th'Valrass) I'm not convinced at all!
The comment above by Unkie B should clear things up. They are a subspecies with distinct physiological differences that are more than skin deep, end of story.
Thanks to Shan for removing the racist comments and getting the thread back on track.
As if Shran was a geneticist. Judging from the comments on this thread, people getting race and species mixed up, etc etc it is not entirely certain that "a kind of sub-species" should be taken as gospel. Since they haven't had contact for some long period of time, and keep themselves largely separate, how likely is it that even the Andorians / Aenar know how different genetically they are? Since they can clearly easily interbreed (Talla, Thelin http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Thelin_th'Valrass) I'm not convinced at all!
As I said above, Humans and Vulcans can interbreed. That means something in my field of Biology, but it doesn't hold any water in the Star Trek universe.
To me, the incredible telepathic abilities of the Aenar mean that they are probably more of a distant relative than a recent branch off of the evolutionary tree. If the latter were the case, you would surely see some residual of telepathic ability in Andorians.
Of course, this is a rather silly conversation, but I'm enjoying it nonetheless.
Technically we’re talking about whether aenar should be labelled as andorians which is a question of taxonomy not genetics
If we’re talking about the genetic definition and whether they are the same species then previous comments are spot on - speciation is about producing offspring that can reproduce (i.e are not mules), given there are quarter Klingons (Torres-Paris) and quarter Romulan (Tarsus) to name but two, presumably they’ve got to a point in technology to break down some medical boundaries, technically this makes many of the people in Star Trek the same species! If you could find a way to make dogs and cats breed, they would technically be the same species but as anyone who’s watched ghostbusters knows - that’s the start of the apocalypse
Technically we’re talking about whether aenar should be labelled as andorians which is a question of taxonomy not genetics
If we’re talking about the genetic definition and whether they are the same species then previous comments are spot on - speciation is about producing offspring that can reproduce (i.e are not mules), given there are quarter Klingons (Torres-Paris) and quarter Romulan (Tarsus) to name but two, presumably they’ve got to a point in technology to break down some medical boundaries, technically this makes many of the people in Star Trek the same species! If you could find a way to make dogs and cats breed, they would technically be the same species but as anyone who’s watched ghostbusters knows - that’s the start of the apocalypse
There’s one assumption here that I'm not sure is quite right: there are indeed sterile hybrids like miles but that does not mean all hybrids are sterile. I’ve been reading up on ligers and tigons and found that, while rare, 2nd generation hybrids (such as liligers and litigons) have been born. This suggests that, while many Alpha Quadrant humanoid species do share a common ancestor and are capable of interbreeding, that they are not the same species (as would be the case anyway due to the significant physiological differences).
Just wondering, what does Senator Cretak (3* ranked reward) have to do with this event?
One of the factions during the second phase will be Romulans. Lissan mentioned the Romulans at the beginning of the event, so maybe they'll swoop in to save the day?
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Comments
Compared to Prisoner Katrina Cornwell or Mirror Crusher, both of whom have three skills and DIP as secondary, Lissan does not impress me with the level of her DIP which is her primarily.
Yeah, I'm not going for her, just thresholds and I'm out
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Tora Ziyal - Thanks!
Natima Lang
Empok Nor Garak
Tekeny Ghemor
Mira
Makbar
Dejar
Ulani Belor
Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
As I mentioned in a different post.
@Dirk Gunderson
Mentions in this post, the Enterprise episode with two enterprises is Captained by Lorian the son of T’Pol and Tucker.
In Terra Prime episodes: Phlox (when the baby dies) makes comment, that Vulcan and human DNA are incompatible. Later in episode, Tucker tells T’Pol that Phlox said there was a problem with the cloning process and Human and Vulcan DNA is compatible. But all of this is a writing mistake since they know from Lorian that Vulcans and humans can have children.
It was all bad writing choices to justify the death of the baby. The writers knew that Vulcans and Humans could have children since Spock existed 40 years earlier.
I’m not sure I follow your point here. The writers absolutely flubbed when they had Phlox initially say that human and Vulcan DNA is compatible - they know it is because they met Lorian the year before (an argument could be made that the successful transit of the subspace vortex means they’d have no memory of someone who never existed, which is a whole other side discussion for another time). The baby died because of a mistake that Terra Prime’s scientists made when creating her.
Saying that attributing baby Elizabeth’s to a cloning problem was a mistake because the writers know that human/Vulcan hybrids are possible because Spock existed doesn’t make sense because they don’t have anything to do with one another.
I guess it's just like so many other characters DB gives us from single scenes/moments in a single episode lasting only seconds, over more important characters we actually want/need?! (IMHO)
Lissan
Jhamel
Hahahahaha
The geneticist at DB was working overtime last weekend
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ya i have to say not thrilled with the choices, bought most of the event packs for last several events to ff most of the golds ,
but barley even rember that one episode, stats are really in the tank, arts pretty rough
between this week and last weeks events first time in a month or two i have not bought the 99 and 49 for the 5*
But wasn't Lissan more the main representative or even possible leader of the Aenar, if memory serves me correct?
What bugs me is the script of her describes her as a physician so naturally science and/or medical skills go out the window...
The Aenar really don’t have a government or permanent leaders, though Lissan was chosen to be the “speaker” for the Aenar when Archer and Shran visited their city.
The baby died because of faulty cloning procedures. Phlox later told Trip and T'Pol that there was no biological reason vulcans and humans couldn't mate and have a healthy child.
Same here. I'll finish off my Prisoner Cornwell, get all 4 copies of Landry (not because I want the character but because it's a gauranteed 4 stars), and I'm done. I have zero desire for any of the ranked reward characters and won't bother trying. Did the same thing last event.
Nope, it was DBs choice. Jhamel is included in the standard licensing with Enterprise. DB just makes a lot of choices that many of us find questionable at times.
There's really no arguing than Lissan is a more appropriate character than Jhamel. Lissan just happened to be the one chosen at the time to present a face to Archer and Shran. If it were up to her, the Aenars wouldn't have anything to do with the Andorians or Humans, or any outsiders. Jhamel is the true representative for the (sub)species to the world, interacting with it and looking for her brother.
Lissan is literally just filler and a minor plot bump to give Jhamel something to overcome to join Archer and Shran.
Are you positive that they have general licensing to all the characters? In the past they have said they need specific actors' permissions.
I believe you’re correct. You need an actor’s permission to use their likeness.
It’s possible that main cast members have somehow signed that kind of permission into a contract of some sort, but a guest star wouldn’t have.
Having rights to use the creative content of Star Trek is different from having rights to using a particular person’s image.
I think it depends on the actor's original contract with the showrunners. It's possible that the later series included a clause of "we retain the right to license your likeness within the context of this property" or somesuch thing (I'm not a lawyer), just to make merchandising etc easier, whereas with the older series (and possibly with guest actors), they didn't include a similar clause in their contract.
Cardassian wishlist:
Tora Ziyal - Thanks!
Natima Lang
Empok Nor Garak
Tekeny Ghemor
Mira
Makbar
Dejar
Ulani Belor
Its almost like we don't have to get the best version of every character immediately. Lissan was an important element of one episode. There's nothing wrong with that.
Every week I could start a massively hyperbolic post demanding the immediate release of Poison Crossbow Picard (aka Best Picard). Or I could just wait. What would things be like if the coolest version of every character was already released? How exciting would things be then?
Technically we’re talking about whether aenar should be labelled as andorians which is a question of taxonomy not genetics
If we’re talking about the genetic definition and whether they are the same species then previous comments are spot on - speciation is about producing offspring that can reproduce (i.e are not mules), given there are quarter Klingons (Torres-Paris) and quarter Romulan (Tarsus) to name but two, presumably they’ve got to a point in technology to break down some medical boundaries, technically this makes many of the people in Star Trek the same species! If you could find a way to make dogs and cats breed, they would technically be the same species but as anyone who’s watched ghostbusters knows - that’s the start of the apocalypse
There’s one assumption here that I'm not sure is quite right: there are indeed sterile hybrids like miles but that does not mean all hybrids are sterile. I’ve been reading up on ligers and tigons and found that, while rare, 2nd generation hybrids (such as liligers and litigons) have been born. This suggests that, while many Alpha Quadrant humanoid species do share a common ancestor and are capable of interbreeding, that they are not the same species (as would be the case anyway due to the significant physiological differences).
One of the factions during the second phase will be Romulans. Lissan mentioned the Romulans at the beginning of the event, so maybe they'll swoop in to save the day?
Cardassian wishlist:
Tora Ziyal - Thanks!
Natima Lang
Empok Nor Garak
Tekeny Ghemor
Mira
Makbar
Dejar
Ulani Belor
Romulans are Vulcans. Well, a sub species anyway.