So far, the posts in this thread have been, for the most part, within a reasonable band, so I'd prefer it if we can strive to not indulge in hyperbole or combativeness. Not having to moderate threads is cool.
TLDR: Try to be nice.
There are a few things to keep in mind.
Yes, we made mistakes for this week's event. Again. No one is happy about it. On the other hand, there have been consistent, but incremental improvements in a wide range of areas over the past several months. This is not an excuse or even a defense. It's a fact.
No, players will not see dramatic changes. Server lag won't suddenly stop next week. Typos won't disappear next month. Nothing in game development and live operations is ever that easy. If it was, we'd have copied and pasted our way to perfection. This game is built on a delicate nest of code and databases that has been twisted into accomplishing things that humankind was never meant to understand. There is a price to pay for that kind of development.
Yes, players have every right to be frustrated and disappointed in Disruptor Beam's consistency and inconsistency. However, it's difficult to truly understand that frustration when it's overwhelmed by hyperbole. No one lied to players about shuttle missions or this week's factions. We made a mistake. We make lots of mistakes. Players can absolutely accuse us of incompetence, but accusing us of deliberately lying to our players instantly polarizes the discussion and obfuscates the discussion. Accusing us of only allowing pro-Disruptor Beam comments is complicated by the fact that....well someone just made an accusation that everyone can see.
No, we're not going to moderate the forums with a fine-tooth comb versus locking threads. We are a small company and an even smaller team. While both Shan and I would love to spend much more time actually socializing with our players, we just cannot do what some other game publishers are able to do. If you believe you're being persecuted or singled out, then please stop starting multiple threads on similar topics, create separate sock puppet accounts, rely on memes to convey complex ideas and try to focus on having a conversation versus trying to encourage conflict.
Yes, there WILL be more errors coming your way. I can guarantee it. It could be a typo. It could be an unannounced features. It will probably be lag. It's not because we want to do it. I understand why some players see this as an indication that we don't care. However, what it actually means is we're trying very hard to make 1's and 0's do things that they weren't designed to do in the first place. This game is built on archaic layers of spaghetti code. Changing just about anything is a long-term task. You may have experience in other games or development that proves to you that it can be done better and quicker. You're probably right. This is not that situation. We understand that apologies and even Sorrytons stop mattering after a while. We play the game too, and it upsets us as well. What we try to do though is work through and keep on trying to get better. A lot of what we do as a company, if we're truly successful, will never be seen by players.
Lastly, none of us are planning on tête-à-tête, mano-a-mano, or back and forth discussions. It's not that we don't want to, though we don't, but going back a few points, it's not a great way for us to get sidetracked. If you have genuine questions, suggestions or concerns, we will do our best to try an address them, at least at an aggregate level. If what you really want to do is engage in verbal sparring, vent or derail conversations, you will not have our support in making that happen.
@Black Pebble Nicely said, would have been great to hear several hours ago, at the beginning of issues instead of hours later after realizing how upset we were
As a father my kids would never be allowed to get away with that
Im not trying to mano-o-mano you
But there have been no
"We understand that apologies and even Sorrytons stop mattering after a while."
You guys did not even make a effort to apologies or sent merits or sorrytons
Instead you basically said we are going to do what we want deal with it
As for mistakes yes we get that your human not computers, mistakes will happen, its not the mistakes that happen that we are upset with its how your handling them that has us up in arms
Maybe we are being ungrateful in your eyes, but in our eyes will feel like your blowing us off, which really gets under the skin when your paying someone for a product
Only takes a few mins to post something detailed and maybe a day to do a mass email
Yes your jobs are not easy, really so in the case of you fourm guys as you take the it on the chin more then the rest
If a mistake (not lie ) happens jump on it, admit there was a mistake and throw some t shirts at the crowd
It cost you nothing and gains you everthing
Yesyes there will still be some complaints, and grumbling but its a heck of lot better then pitchfirks and torchs
We love your dam game, its why we **tsk tsk**
Yes its frustrating to you but its the same for us to
So explain and make right on your mistake
No, players will not see dramatic changes. Server lag won't suddenly stop next week. Typos won't disappear next month. Nothing in game development and live operations is ever that easy. If it was, we'd have copied and pasted our way to perfection. This game is built on a delicate nest of code and databases that has been twisted into accomplishing things that humankind was never meant to understand. There is a price to pay for that kind of development.
With this in mind, I ask once again..... Can we please PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE back off on the events every single week so more testing and work can be done to make sure that the code works and that the correct information concerning it is conveyed to us??
The word lie carries connotations with it. If I have no reason to doubt what you said and repeat your lie, my conscience is clean. I relayed false information. You lied.
Let's use a relevant example. If in your fleet chat yesterday, someone told that Klingons and Romulans would be in this event, would you accuse that person of lying to you? Probably not. They relayed information that they took in good faith to be true.
I agree with you: the word "lie" is misused and overused and is supposed to mean deliberately providing falsehoods. That is, saying something false that you know to be false.
If you go to pay for your purchases that came to $5.17 and to provide a $10 and say "I have the change", but a quick check of your pockets reveals you don't, what you should say is "I was mistaken".
If you say "I lied," the appropriate reaction is to throw you out of the store.
Your example struck a cord with me. That is exactly why I usually say "they said blah blah blah". That way under no definition is what I said untrue: even if the information proves false, it remains true that they said it.
I'd like to congratulate DB: they have managed to destroy in an instant any credibility that Shan has built up over a long time. We may believe that Shan will always tell the truth, but that doesn't matter if we believe that Shan isn't being told the truth.
Unfortunately, sometimes an action has the exact opposite effect it was intended to have. I understand the players' frustration, being one of them, although I didn't put nearly as much prep effort into this event as I'm sure some did. I also understand how the DB staff, human beings facing the firestorm of multiple angry threads, could have become frustrated as well. But it looks to me, IMHO, that the attempts to calm tempers (by closing threads and "jailing" someone for an image I can't comment on because I never saw it), has instead made a number of people even more angry, without many good ways to deal with that anger, except perhaps by "I'm outta here." If they "go too far" on this thread, it may be closed also (but will another be started in it's place, with people even more upset?) I don't know how/if this can be salvaged. Just my two cents.
The jailing has nothing to do with the image he posted. He opened at least one or two threads earlier that were closed, I imagine the issue has to do with that.
The primary purpose is to prevent a user from spamming the community with multiple new threads.
So that you can’t bury legitimate threads with spam.
Thanks for the clarification.
My overall concerns about the response ending up being worse than the "miscommunication" remains.
I think part of the deal with closing threads is so that they can keep a closer eye on the open ones.
That said, it’s a stated goal of DB to have these forums be a friendly, helpful place for players.
The reaction seems extreme right now, but compensation will go out, there will be an increased backlog of tickets, and eventually things will fade a bit as people feel their issue has been resolved, until we eventually have a catchy name for this incident (see: Picardgate).
I think everything will be okay eventually. Time heals, and all that.
Shan allready said they wont be compensation inless you put a ticket in for merits on rom and kling faction tokens only
How many players do they lose ever time this happens
If it keeps up wont be anyone left
The forums are a tiny cross-section of the player base, but sentiments here likely speak to a larger picture. How many players leave without saying anything, over cumulative issues, and apparent disconnect between the essence of Trek and DB?
I get the impression that this game could be far more successful and enduring, and that the number who leave or don't become more involved in the first place, is underestimated.
STT seems set up to be a (typical?) mobile game to be burnt through quickly, but Trekkies are an exceptionally ardent and loyal group - following a franchise for several decades so far. Given enough respect and a game that is true to the nature of Trek, it could be a long term and evolving gold mine for a lucky company which has the rights and realizes what they have in their player base.
So far, the posts in this thread have been, for the most part, within a reasonable band, so I'd prefer it if we can strive to not indulge in hyperbole or combativeness. Not having to moderate threads is cool.
TLDR: Try to be nice.
There are a few things to keep in mind.
Yes, we made mistakes for this week's event. Again. No one is happy about it. On the other hand, there have been consistent, but incremental improvements in a wide range of areas over the past several months. This is not an excuse or even a defense. It's a fact.
No, players will not see dramatic changes. Server lag won't suddenly stop next week. Typos won't disappear next month. Nothing in game development and live operations is ever that easy. If it was, we'd have copied and pasted our way to perfection. This game is built on a delicate nest of code and databases that has been twisted into accomplishing things that humankind was never meant to understand. There is a price to pay for that kind of development.
Yes, players have every right to be frustrated and disappointed in Disruptor Beam's consistency and inconsistency. However, it's difficult to truly understand that frustration when it's overwhelmed by hyperbole. No one lied to players about shuttle missions or this week's factions. We made a mistake. We make lots of mistakes. Players can absolutely accuse us of incompetence, but accusing us of deliberately lying to our players instantly polarizes the discussion and obfuscates the discussion. Accusing us of only allowing pro-Disruptor Beam comments is complicated by the fact that....well someone just made an accusation that everyone can see.
No, we're not going to moderate the forums with a fine-tooth comb versus locking threads. We are a small company and an even smaller team. While both Shan and I would love to spend much more time actually socializing with our players, we just cannot do what some other game publishers are able to do. If you believe you're being persecuted or singled out, then please stop starting multiple threads on similar topics, create separate sock puppet accounts, rely on memes to convey complex ideas and try to focus on having a conversation versus trying to encourage conflict.
Yes, there WILL be more errors coming your way. I can guarantee it. It could be a typo. It could be an unannounced features. It will probably be lag. It's not because we want to do it. I understand why some players see this as an indication that we don't care. However, what it actually means is we're trying very hard to make 1's and 0's do things that they weren't designed to do in the first place. This game is built on archaic layers of spaghetti code. Changing just about anything is a long-term task. You may have experience in other games or development that proves to you that it can be done better and quicker. You're probably right. This is not that situation. We understand that apologies and even Sorrytons stop mattering after a while. We play the game too, and it upsets us as well. What we try to do though is work through and keep on trying to get better. A lot of what we do as a company, if we're truly successful, will never be seen by players.
Lastly, none of us are planning on tête-à-tête, mano-a-mano, or back and forth discussions. It's not that we don't want to, though we don't, but going back a few points, it's not a great way for us to get sidetracked. If you have genuine questions, suggestions or concerns, we will do our best to try an address them, at least at an aggregate level. If what you really want to do is engage in verbal sparring, vent or derail conversations, you will not have our support in making that happen.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I understand the game is built on a shaky infrastructure, but these problems are not just about the shaky code.
What part of the shaky code is responsible for messing up the factions included in this event? Did the designers not know it would be 1 faction? Was the announcement auto-generated? Or is there a human process that screwed up communicating to Shan the factions?
What part of the shaky code is responsible for generating the faction missions? Did the designers not know that there would only be 12 missions? Or is there a human process that made a change and neglected to tell Shan or the players?
If the issues were just limited to server lags or other technical issues I would understand the struggles, but these are human issues caused by a bad process. And that you continue to blame technical struggles for this shows you don't understand the actual issue.
Personally, I'm really not that fussed. Kinda surprised me this morning, but I handled it. I've dealt with worse.
Black Pebble's apology is good enough for me. I've noticed, there are times when am apology is difficult at best, extremely painful at worst. Some people NEVER apologize.
Some people lie. They even admit to it (presidents included). Pretty damned sure DB weren't lying here, I can't begin to imagine why they would do that, knowing the flame wars that spring up almost weekly on their forums. They made a mistake. And apologized. More than once.
Cool. I'm enjoying the event. Thanks DB. The art is fantastic and Nurse Garland's voyage stats also great, and if I can get more Rom all the better.
Thanks to Black Pebble, Shan and all the devs for giving me a fun weekend!
So far, the posts in this thread have been, for the most part, within a reasonable band, so I'd prefer it if we can strive to not indulge in hyperbole or combativeness. Not having to moderate threads is cool.
TLDR: Try to be nice.
There are a few things to keep in mind.
Yes, we made mistakes for this week's event. Again. No one is happy about it. On the other hand, there have been consistent, but incremental improvements in a wide range of areas over the past several months. This is not an excuse or even a defense. It's a fact.
No, players will not see dramatic changes. Server lag won't suddenly stop next week. Typos won't disappear next month. Nothing in game development and live operations is ever that easy. If it was, we'd have copied and pasted our way to perfection. This game is built on a delicate nest of code and databases that has been twisted into accomplishing things that humankind was never meant to understand. There is a price to pay for that kind of development.
Yes, players have every right to be frustrated and disappointed in Disruptor Beam's consistency and inconsistency. However, it's difficult to truly understand that frustration when it's overwhelmed by hyperbole. No one lied to players about shuttle missions or this week's factions. We made a mistake. We make lots of mistakes. Players can absolutely accuse us of incompetence, but accusing us of deliberately lying to our players instantly polarizes the discussion and obfuscates the discussion. Accusing us of only allowing pro-Disruptor Beam comments is complicated by the fact that....well someone just made an accusation that everyone can see.
No, we're not going to moderate the forums with a fine-tooth comb versus locking threads. We are a small company and an even smaller team. While both Shan and I would love to spend much more time actually socializing with our players, we just cannot do what some other game publishers are able to do. If you believe you're being persecuted or singled out, then please stop starting multiple threads on similar topics, create separate sock puppet accounts, rely on memes to convey complex ideas and try to focus on having a conversation versus trying to encourage conflict.
Yes, there WILL be more errors coming your way. I can guarantee it. It could be a typo. It could be an unannounced features. It will probably be lag. It's not because we want to do it. I understand why some players see this as an indication that we don't care. However, what it actually means is we're trying very hard to make 1's and 0's do things that they weren't designed to do in the first place. This game is built on archaic layers of spaghetti code. Changing just about anything is a long-term task. You may have experience in other games or development that proves to you that it can be done better and quicker. You're probably right. This is not that situation. We understand that apologies and even Sorrytons stop mattering after a while. We play the game too, and it upsets us as well. What we try to do though is work through and keep on trying to get better. A lot of what we do as a company, if we're truly successful, will never be seen by players.
Lastly, none of us are planning on tête-à-tête, mano-a-mano, or back and forth discussions. It's not that we don't want to, though we don't, but going back a few points, it's not a great way for us to get sidetracked. If you have genuine questions, suggestions or concerns, we will do our best to try an address them, at least at an aggregate level. If what you really want to do is engage in verbal sparring, vent or derail conversations, you will not have our support in making that happen.
I think what bothers me most is not the mistakes, but the lack of transparency.
There is a reason you changed to 12 missions. You sat down and had a meeting and decided to change this event. I don't need to know why, but how come you didn't tell us immediately? This kind of stuff doesn't need to be a secret.
The same goes for the portal. Why did you promise to update it and then not follow through? We know it's not a code issue because you add others like 2* Burnham. For God sakes, just tell us the reason instead of making vague statements that never come to fruition.
A meaningful response to this would be extremely, EXTREMELY appreciated. Give us some insight into how things work. The players aren't stupid we may have good ideas. The best games take advice from customers. You do not and never have.
So far, the posts in this thread have been, for the most part, within a reasonable band, so I'd prefer it if we can strive to not indulge in hyperbole or combativeness. Not having to moderate threads is cool.
TLDR: Try to be nice.
There are a few things to keep in mind.
Yes, we made mistakes for this week's event. Again. No one is happy about it. On the other hand, there have been consistent, but incremental improvements in a wide range of areas over the past several months. This is not an excuse or even a defense. It's a fact.
No, players will not see dramatic changes. Server lag won't suddenly stop next week. Typos won't disappear next month. Nothing in game development and live operations is ever that easy. If it was, we'd have copied and pasted our way to perfection. This game is built on a delicate nest of code and databases that has been twisted into accomplishing things that humankind was never meant to understand. There is a price to pay for that kind of development.
Yes, players have every right to be frustrated and disappointed in Disruptor Beam's consistency and inconsistency. However, it's difficult to truly understand that frustration when it's overwhelmed by hyperbole. No one lied to players about shuttle missions or this week's factions. We made a mistake. We make lots of mistakes. Players can absolutely accuse us of incompetence, but accusing us of deliberately lying to our players instantly polarizes the discussion and obfuscates the discussion. Accusing us of only allowing pro-Disruptor Beam comments is complicated by the fact that....well someone just made an accusation that everyone can see.
No, we're not going to moderate the forums with a fine-tooth comb versus locking threads. We are a small company and an even smaller team. While both Shan and I would love to spend much more time actually socializing with our players, we just cannot do what some other game publishers are able to do. If you believe you're being persecuted or singled out, then please stop starting multiple threads on similar topics, create separate sock puppet accounts, rely on memes to convey complex ideas and try to focus on having a conversation versus trying to encourage conflict.
Yes, there WILL be more errors coming your way. I can guarantee it. It could be a typo. It could be an unannounced features. It will probably be lag. It's not because we want to do it. I understand why some players see this as an indication that we don't care. However, what it actually means is we're trying very hard to make 1's and 0's do things that they weren't designed to do in the first place. This game is built on archaic layers of spaghetti code. Changing just about anything is a long-term task. You may have experience in other games or development that proves to you that it can be done better and quicker. You're probably right. This is not that situation. We understand that apologies and even Sorrytons stop mattering after a while. We play the game too, and it upsets us as well. What we try to do though is work through and keep on trying to get better. A lot of what we do as a company, if we're truly successful, will never be seen by players.
Lastly, none of us are planning on tête-à-tête, mano-a-mano, or back and forth discussions. It's not that we don't want to, though we don't, but going back a few points, it's not a great way for us to get sidetracked. If you have genuine questions, suggestions or concerns, we will do our best to try an address them, at least at an aggregate level. If what you really want to do is engage in verbal sparring, vent or derail conversations, you will not have our support in making that happen.
I understand the game is built on a shaky infrastructure...
This idea does not give me warm, fuzzy feelings. Awhile ago, I spent quite a bit of time building up characters in another game, only to have them stop updates, then totally stop providing it, because the code was too old. Is that what I can expect from STT, maybe soon if it is really that shaky? If so, why should I invest my time/money in it, just to have it all go "poof"? Any reassurances?
(I know this is a "card" game, but is it actually a "house of cards"?)
[BTW, I have twice tried to put an actual name into the "guestXXXX" spot, but it didn't work. So I'm just remaining a guest...]
So far, the posts in this thread have been, for the most part, within a reasonable band, so I'd prefer it if we can strive to not indulge in hyperbole or combativeness. Not having to moderate threads is cool.
TLDR: Try to be nice.
There are a few things to keep in mind.
Yes, we made mistakes for this week's event. Again. No one is happy about it. On the other hand, there have been consistent, but incremental improvements in a wide range of areas over the past several months. This is not an excuse or even a defense. It's a fact.
No, players will not see dramatic changes. Server lag won't suddenly stop next week. Typos won't disappear next month. Nothing in game development and live operations is ever that easy. If it was, we'd have copied and pasted our way to perfection. This game is built on a delicate nest of code and databases that has been twisted into accomplishing things that humankind was never meant to understand. There is a price to pay for that kind of development.
Yes, players have every right to be frustrated and disappointed in Disruptor Beam's consistency and inconsistency. However, it's difficult to truly understand that frustration when it's overwhelmed by hyperbole. No one lied to players about shuttle missions or this week's factions. We made a mistake. We make lots of mistakes. Players can absolutely accuse us of incompetence, but accusing us of deliberately lying to our players instantly polarizes the discussion and obfuscates the discussion. Accusing us of only allowing pro-Disruptor Beam comments is complicated by the fact that....well someone just made an accusation that everyone can see.
No, we're not going to moderate the forums with a fine-tooth comb versus locking threads. We are a small company and an even smaller team. While both Shan and I would love to spend much more time actually socializing with our players, we just cannot do what some other game publishers are able to do. If you believe you're being persecuted or singled out, then please stop starting multiple threads on similar topics, create separate sock puppet accounts, rely on memes to convey complex ideas and try to focus on having a conversation versus trying to encourage conflict.
Yes, there WILL be more errors coming your way. I can guarantee it. It could be a typo. It could be an unannounced features. It will probably be lag. It's not because we want to do it. I understand why some players see this as an indication that we don't care. However, what it actually means is we're trying very hard to make 1's and 0's do things that they weren't designed to do in the first place. This game is built on archaic layers of spaghetti code. Changing just about anything is a long-term task. You may have experience in other games or development that proves to you that it can be done better and quicker. You're probably right. This is not that situation. We understand that apologies and even Sorrytons stop mattering after a while. We play the game too, and it upsets us as well. What we try to do though is work through and keep on trying to get better. A lot of what we do as a company, if we're truly successful, will never be seen by players.
Lastly, none of us are planning on tête-à-tête, mano-a-mano, or back and forth discussions. It's not that we don't want to, though we don't, but going back a few points, it's not a great way for us to get sidetracked. If you have genuine questions, suggestions or concerns, we will do our best to try an address them, at least at an aggregate level. If what you really want to do is engage in verbal sparring, vent or derail conversations, you will not have our support in making that happen.
Yes from a development standpoint and product standpoint strides have been made. Changes to the Cryostasis vault, the implementation (yet nerfing) of Voyages, and the final slaying after a year of the audio takeover bug allowing some of us
However, from a communications standpoint, y'all have made more steps back and than forward, moving event notifications later, yet still making the same mistakes that were supposed to be minimized or avoided by making those timeframe changes.
You have made it sound like the code here is a main issue. From my limited perspective that does not appear to be the case, at least in this and in several of the recent incidents, from this former Analyst and current Engineers perspective. This feels from this outsiders perspective to be a people and process issue. QC and QA that validates changes made provides empirical evidence that things are actually working as intended. Communication of the exact results of those changes in their entirety AFTER said QC and QA checks then leads to proper information being presented. Of course that also assumes that said QA and QC checks include all possible permutations
And none of that has to do with how spaghetti, linguine or penne the code is.
So far, the posts in this thread have been, for the most part, within a reasonable band, so I'd prefer it if we can strive to not indulge in hyperbole or combativeness. Not having to moderate threads is cool.
TLDR: Try to be nice.
There are a few things to keep in mind.
Yes, we made mistakes for this week's event. Again. No one is happy about it. On the other hand, there have been consistent, but incremental improvements in a wide range of areas over the past several months. This is not an excuse or even a defense. It's a fact.
No, players will not see dramatic changes. Server lag won't suddenly stop next week. Typos won't disappear next month. Nothing in game development and live operations is ever that easy. If it was, we'd have copied and pasted our way to perfection. This game is built on a delicate nest of code and databases that has been twisted into accomplishing things that humankind was never meant to understand. There is a price to pay for that kind of development.
Yes, players have every right to be frustrated and disappointed in Disruptor Beam's consistency and inconsistency. However, it's difficult to truly understand that frustration when it's overwhelmed by hyperbole. No one lied to players about shuttle missions or this week's factions. We made a mistake. We make lots of mistakes. Players can absolutely accuse us of incompetence, but accusing us of deliberately lying to our players instantly polarizes the discussion and obfuscates the discussion. Accusing us of only allowing pro-Disruptor Beam comments is complicated by the fact that....well someone just made an accusation that everyone can see.
No, we're not going to moderate the forums with a fine-tooth comb versus locking threads. We are a small company and an even smaller team. While both Shan and I would love to spend much more time actually socializing with our players, we just cannot do what some other game publishers are able to do. If you believe you're being persecuted or singled out, then please stop starting multiple threads on similar topics, create separate sock puppet accounts, rely on memes to convey complex ideas and try to focus on having a conversation versus trying to encourage conflict.
Yes, there WILL be more errors coming your way. I can guarantee it. It could be a typo. It could be an unannounced features. It will probably be lag. It's not because we want to do it. I understand why some players see this as an indication that we don't care. However, what it actually means is we're trying very hard to make 1's and 0's do things that they weren't designed to do in the first place. This game is built on archaic layers of spaghetti code. Changing just about anything is a long-term task. You may have experience in other games or development that proves to you that it can be done better and quicker. You're probably right. This is not that situation. We understand that apologies and even Sorrytons stop mattering after a while. We play the game too, and it upsets us as well. What we try to do though is work through and keep on trying to get better. A lot of what we do as a company, if we're truly successful, will never be seen by players.
Lastly, none of us are planning on tête-à-tête, mano-a-mano, or back and forth discussions. It's not that we don't want to, though we don't, but going back a few points, it's not a great way for us to get sidetracked. If you have genuine questions, suggestions or concerns, we will do our best to try an address them, at least at an aggregate level. If what you really want to do is engage in verbal sparring, vent or derail conversations, you will not have our support in making that happen.
I think what bothers me most is not the mistakes, but the lack of transparency.
There is a reason you changed to 12 missions. You sat down and had a meeting and decided to change this event. I don't need to know why, but how come you didn't tell us immediately? This kind of stuff doesn't need to be a secret.
The same goes for the portal. Why did you promise to update it and then not follow through? We know it's not a code issue because you add others like 2* Burnham. For God sakes, just tell us the reason instead of making vague statements that never come to fruition.
A meaningful response to this would be extremely, EXTREMELY appreciated. Give us some insight into how things work. The players aren't stupid we may have good ideas. The best games take advice from customers. You do not and never have.
I'm not sure I agree that they never have. There were complaints about the artwork, they fixed it. There were complaints about the lack of strong MED - the last three weeks have each featured at least one MED, and before that the month-long recurring character was one (not to mention both of the new Honor Hall characters AND the Gauntlet character). There were complaints from people who didn't think Kahless should leave the Honor Hall when he was replaced - so they kept him. There were complaints about too many new characters every week - again, the last three events have featured at least one existing character each. There were complaints about the lack of Expedition events - they brought it back (and then it flopped massively and I'm going to hope we haven't had another since because they're ironing the kinks out). There were complaints about the lag at the start of Faction events, so they tried to fix it with a solution that everyone ended up hating. Heck, there were complaints about the Best Of ship packs, and now the most recent one is a guaranteed pack instead.
These are all within the last three months.
Just because they don't start every announcement with "We listened to you and VOILA" doesn't mean they aren't listening. It's disingenuous to imply otherwise just because they haven't addressed every single gripe every single person on the forums has.
If the issues were just limited to server lags or other technical issues I would understand the struggles, but these are human issues caused by a bad process. And that you continue to blame technical struggles for this shows you don't understand the actual issue.
Amen.
It looks like most or all of us assumed the fault lay in the code. People reported that the number of missions available was incorrect as a bug.
But instead of being told the bug couldn't be addressed while the event is running, they were told it was working as intended. And when it was pointed out that the way it was working contradicts statements about how it would work made in the recent past, they were told that those statements had been incorrect. Not that things had changed since then, but that those statements had been incorrect at the time they were made.
Which leads to the obvious question: given these statements, is there any logical reason to believe anything DB or its spokespeople say?
Note that I am not saying that we should automatically assume anything they say is false. Quite the opposite; I am saying that the truth of what they say is unreliable.
So far, the posts in this thread have been, for the most part, within a reasonable band, so I'd prefer it if we can strive to not indulge in hyperbole or combativeness. Not having to moderate threads is cool.
TLDR: Try to be nice.
There are a few things to keep in mind.
Yes, we made mistakes for this week's event. Again. No one is happy about it. On the other hand, there have been consistent, but incremental improvements in a wide range of areas over the past several months. This is not an excuse or even a defense. It's a fact.
No, players will not see dramatic changes. Server lag won't suddenly stop next week. Typos won't disappear next month. Nothing in game development and live operations is ever that easy. If it was, we'd have copied and pasted our way to perfection. This game is built on a delicate nest of code and databases that has been twisted into accomplishing things that humankind was never meant to understand. There is a price to pay for that kind of development.
Yes, players have every right to be frustrated and disappointed in Disruptor Beam's consistency and inconsistency. However, it's difficult to truly understand that frustration when it's overwhelmed by hyperbole. No one lied to players about shuttle missions or this week's factions. We made a mistake. We make lots of mistakes. Players can absolutely accuse us of incompetence, but accusing us of deliberately lying to our players instantly polarizes the discussion and obfuscates the discussion. Accusing us of only allowing pro-Disruptor Beam comments is complicated by the fact that....well someone just made an accusation that everyone can see.
No, we're not going to moderate the forums with a fine-tooth comb versus locking threads. We are a small company and an even smaller team. While both Shan and I would love to spend much more time actually socializing with our players, we just cannot do what some other game publishers are able to do. If you believe you're being persecuted or singled out, then please stop starting multiple threads on similar topics, create separate sock puppet accounts, rely on memes to convey complex ideas and try to focus on having a conversation versus trying to encourage conflict.
Yes, there WILL be more errors coming your way. I can guarantee it. It could be a typo. It could be an unannounced features. It will probably be lag. It's not because we want to do it. I understand why some players see this as an indication that we don't care. However, what it actually means is we're trying very hard to make 1's and 0's do things that they weren't designed to do in the first place. This game is built on archaic layers of spaghetti code. Changing just about anything is a long-term task. You may have experience in other games or development that proves to you that it can be done better and quicker. You're probably right. This is not that situation. We understand that apologies and even Sorrytons stop mattering after a while. We play the game too, and it upsets us as well. What we try to do though is work through and keep on trying to get better. A lot of what we do as a company, if we're truly successful, will never be seen by players.
Lastly, none of us are planning on tête-à-tête, mano-a-mano, or back and forth discussions. It's not that we don't want to, though we don't, but going back a few points, it's not a great way for us to get sidetracked. If you have genuine questions, suggestions or concerns, we will do our best to try an address them, at least at an aggregate level. If what you really want to do is engage in verbal sparring, vent or derail conversations, you will not have our support in making that happen.
I think what bothers me most is not the mistakes, but the lack of transparency.
There is a reason you changed to 12 missions. You sat down and had a meeting and decided to change this event. I don't need to know why, but how come you didn't tell us immediately? This kind of stuff doesn't need to be a secret.
The same goes for the portal. Why did you promise to update it and then not follow through? We know it's not a code issue because you add others like 2* Burnham. For God sakes, just tell us the reason instead of making vague statements that never come to fruition.
A meaningful response to this would be extremely, EXTREMELY appreciated. Give us some insight into how things work. The players aren't stupid we may have good ideas. The best games take advice from customers. You do not and never have.
I'm not sure I agree that they never have. There were complaints about the artwork, they fixed it. There were complaints about the lack of strong MED - the last three weeks have each featured at least one MED, and before that the month-long recurring character was one (not to mention both of the new Honor Hall characters AND the Gauntlet character). There were complaints from people who didn't think Kahless should leave the Honor Hall when he was replaced - so they kept him. There were complaints about too many new characters every week - again, the last three events have featured at least one existing character each. There were complaints about the lack of Expedition events - they brought it back (and then it flopped massively and I'm going to hope we haven't had another since because they're ironing the kinks out). There were complaints about the lag at the start of Faction events, so they tried to fix it with a solution that everyone ended up hating. Heck, there were complaints about the Best Of ship packs, and now the most recent one is a guaranteed pack instead.
These are all within the last three months.
Just because they don't start every announcement with "We listened to you and VOILA" doesn't mean they aren't listening. It's disingenuous to imply otherwise just because they haven't addressed every single gripe every single person on the forums has.
That's your perspective, but let me offer you a different one.
The best art in the game came at the start. We asked them to keep it coming when the quality dropped and they did not. We went through several months of substandard art.
Strong medical characters have always been present in the same proportion that they are now. These last three weeks haven't changed anything.
A great number of players, perhaps a majority, don't want Kahless in the honour hall. It reduces diversity and leads to more walls of the same character. On any 50/50 issue like this, half of the players are going to support what they do.
These 3 weeks of existing characters comes on the heels of an extended stretch of new characters. These complaints have always existed and I'm hesitant to say that they have made any conscious effort to change.
Expedition events were extremely popular in their original state (perhaps before you started playing), but they messed with them to make more money and then royally screwed up the event at Christmas with bugs and bad decisions. That's a prime example of not listening to the players.
DB does their own thing and nothing will change that. They think they know what will make players pay more than we do and maybe they are right.
The art has gotten better Grant. DB has given us really good medical crew. We got an eng, sci, med combo da vinci we asked for. We got a strong medical cornwell in the event month. I have only heard a very few people wanting kahless pulled from the honor hall, nowhere near a majority. There has always been lots of hate towards expedition events. They are time consuming and have way too much clicking. DB listened and made changes to make it more palatable and they are now. Expeditions do not make db much money as few buy tickets and they require lots of programming and often are buggy. DB has clearly listened on numerous occasions. Ultimately though this is DB's game and they cannot do everything we want because of costs to make what we want, or it doesnt net them enough money, or they just have ideas of their own they want to implement. This is true of any mobile game you play. Is DB perfect? No. But better than most mobile game companies I have had dealings with.
The art has gotten better Grant. DB has given us really good medical crew. We got an eng, sci, med combo da vinci we asked for. We got a strong medical cornwell in the event month. I have only heard a very few people wanting kahless pulled from the honor hall, nowhere near a majority. There has always been lots of hate towards expedition events. They are time consuming and have way too much clicking. DB listened and made changes to make it more palatable and they are now. Expeditions do not make db much money as few buy tickets and they require lots of programming and often are buggy. DB has clearly listened on numerous occasions. Ultimately though this is DB's game and they cannot do everything we want because of costs to make what we want, or it doesnt net them enough money, or they just have ideas of their own they want to implement. This is true of any mobile game you play. Is DB perfect? No. But better than most mobile game companies I have had dealings with.
If that's your opinion then so be it. You're incorrect about a couple of things, but make some decent points.
I based my statement on the facts available, which are few and far between. There is no definitive proof that they have ever listened to a single thing that the players have said and there is not a lot of evidence that they don't listen(at least in some rare circumstances).
Normally I won't feel compelled to comment in a thread with over the top reactions to an error due to miscommunication.
I for one think that my life isn't in shambles because I can't run rommulan and Klingon factions for vp points.
The fact that there were only 12 missions instead of 18 or 20, was only challenging to me. How to perform a quickstart with these conditions with only 5 sec on the clock....... thank you db for this extra game element during the start of the event. You should do it more often, it keeps us on our toes.
And thank you black pebble for taking the time to explaining life with the game as metaphor, very enlightening.
And yes I did notice the improvements of the different game-elements over the past few months, kudos to your art department, with their latest work. I simply love the improvements of the vault, could quickly find my frozen athletes.
And seriously DB is not a car dealer, but even then as the recalls lately, very poor metaphor.
I belong to group of players that knew the game bf cryo vaults, arena battles and events, this game got over time so much more layers, I really appreciate the development over time and the thought in all the new elements, especially collections, very nice.
So this post is actually as a few before me, an appreciation for all the work DB crew put in the game and give a different sound in this thread for moral support for shan and black pebble, that got a lot of unnecessary harsh language in this thread for something in the grand scheme of things as insignificant.
Keep up the good work and thank you for this game
I am getting so fed up with the failure rates of faction missions. My success rate has been significantly below the posted percentages for the past several events, which I've tracked.
So far this event, excluding the kickstart missions, I have run 24 missions, with the posted success rates ranging from 94% - 98%. However, the actual success rate I've experienced is 71% (17/24). This has gone from being frustrating to being a complete joke.
Between the "miscommunications", utterly useless faction success rates, and canned customer service responses with regards to faction missions performance, this has been a very frustrating day to be a STT player. For shame DB.
No, players will not see dramatic changes. Server lag won't suddenly stop next week. Typos won't disappear next month. Nothing in game development and live operations is ever that easy. If it was, we'd have copied and pasted our way to perfection. This game is built on a delicate nest of code and databases that has been twisted into accomplishing things that humankind was never meant to understand. There is a price to pay for that kind of development.
I feel your pain on this one. Agile is hard to do consistently even with experienced pros. The changes in staff probably made this even more difficult.
I think most of us know it really isn't @Shan and your ( @Black Pebble ) fault, but "venters gotta vent...". Your explanation is much appreciated in trying to inform us on what's going on and to let us know that we are not being ignored. That being said, I can't help but say that weekly "hiccups" are almost reflexively and instinctively expected by me personally...
In the immortal words of Spock: "Live long and prosper"
So far, the posts in this thread have been, for the most part, within a reasonable band, so I'd prefer it if we can strive to not indulge in hyperbole or combativeness. Not having to moderate threads is cool.
TLDR: Try to be nice.
There are a few things to keep in mind.
Yes, we made mistakes for this week's event. Again. No one is happy about it. On the other hand, there have been consistent, but incremental improvements in a wide range of areas over the past several months. This is not an excuse or even a defense. It's a fact.
Yes, players have every right to be frustrated and disappointed in Disruptor Beam's consistency and inconsistency. However, it's difficult to truly understand that frustration when it's overwhelmed by hyperbole.
...
Exactly, thanks black pebble.
That hyperbole is at a ludicrous level on here (the worst hyperbole in the world? ). People act like a really minor miscommunication affects their lives in a major way, when in reality it has almost no effect considering everyone is presenting with the same challenge. They also expect an inconceivable level of quality from a game with agile development and constantly changing content.
What’s worse is the noise people create on trivial things like this means when there is a genuine issue, say packs not containing the right characters or one that only affects a subset of people (like not being able to access the app, giving those that can an unfair advantage), there’s no way of turning the volume up past 11 and you guys at DB can’t tell it from the chaff.
I’ll repeat what I said earlier. Think DB have made some great changes recently (cryostasis etc), and the artwork on this event has vastly improved. Having communicated the wrong number of factions/missions in the forums (read by a small percentage of the playing population) is very minor in the context of the good things that have been happening. thanks DB
...ps - can I have the ability to track starbase donations from fleet members over an extended time please
So far, the posts in this thread have been, for the most part, within a reasonable band, so I'd prefer it if we can strive to not indulge in hyperbole or combativeness. Not having to moderate threads is cool.
TLDR: Try to be nice.
There are a few things to keep in mind.
Yes, we made mistakes for this week's event. Again. No one is happy about it. On the other hand, there have been consistent, but incremental improvements in a wide range of areas over the past several months. This is not an excuse or even a defense. It's a fact.
Yes, players have every right to be frustrated and disappointed in Disruptor Beam's consistency and inconsistency. However, it's difficult to truly understand that frustration when it's overwhelmed by hyperbole.
...
Exactly, thanks black pebble.
That hyperbole is at a ludicrous level on here (the worst hyperbole in the world? ). People act like a really minor miscommunication affects their lives in a major way, when in reality it has almost no effect considering everyone is presenting with the same challenge. They also expect an inconceivable level of quality from a game with agile development and constantly changing content.
What’s worse is the noise people create on trivial things like this means when there is a genuine issue, say packs not containing the right characters or one that only affects a subset of people (like not being able to access the app, giving those that can an unfair advantage), there’s no way of turning the volume up past 11 and you guys at DB can’t tell it from the chaff.
I’ll repeat what I said earlier. Think DB have made some great changes recently (cryostasis etc), and the artwork on this event has vastly improved. Having communicated the wrong number of factions/missions in the forums (read by a small percentage of the playing population) is very minor in the context of the good things that have been happening. thanks DB
...ps - can I have the ability to track starbase donations from fleet members over an extended time please
An issue can be a genuine one for some players, even if it doesn't affect you. Consider a player I know that was relying on Romulan and Klingon items to immortalize characters. He had to airlock 4*s because of the miscommunication.
Your nescient attitude does nothing to help this conversation.
So far, the posts in this thread have been, for the most part, within a reasonable band, so I'd prefer it if we can strive to not indulge in hyperbole or combativeness. Not having to moderate threads is cool.
TLDR: Try to be nice.
There are a few things to keep in mind.
Yes, we made mistakes for this week's event. Again. No one is happy about it. On the other hand, there have been consistent, but incremental improvements in a wide range of areas over the past several months. This is not an excuse or even a defense. It's a fact.
Yes, players have every right to be frustrated and disappointed in Disruptor Beam's consistency and inconsistency. However, it's difficult to truly understand that frustration when it's overwhelmed by hyperbole.
...
Exactly, thanks black pebble.
That hyperbole is at a ludicrous level on here (the worst hyperbole in the world? ). People act like a really minor miscommunication affects their lives in a major way, when in reality it has almost no effect considering everyone is presenting with the same challenge. They also expect an inconceivable level of quality from a game with agile development and constantly changing content.
What’s worse is the noise people create on trivial things like this means when there is a genuine issue, say packs not containing the right characters or one that only affects a subset of people (like not being able to access the app, giving those that can an unfair advantage), there’s no way of turning the volume up past 11 and you guys at DB can’t tell it from the chaff.
I’ll repeat what I said earlier. Think DB have made some great changes recently (cryostasis etc), and the artwork on this event has vastly improved. Having communicated the wrong number of factions/missions in the forums (read by a small percentage of the playing population) is very minor in the context of the good things that have been happening. thanks DB
...ps - can I have the ability to track starbase donations from fleet members over an extended time please
An issue can be a genuine one for some players, even if it doesn't affect you. Consider a player I know that was relying on Romulan and Klingon items to immortalize characters. He had to airlock 4*s because of the miscommunication.
Your nescient attitude does nothing to help this conversation.
So far, the posts in this thread have been, for the most part, within a reasonable band, so I'd prefer it if we can strive to not indulge in hyperbole or combativeness. Not having to moderate threads is cool.
TLDR: Try to be nice.
There are a few things to keep in mind.
Yes, we made mistakes for this week's event. Again. No one is happy about it. On the other hand, there have been consistent, but incremental improvements in a wide range of areas over the past several months. This is not an excuse or even a defense. It's a fact.
Yes, players have every right to be frustrated and disappointed in Disruptor Beam's consistency and inconsistency. However, it's difficult to truly understand that frustration when it's overwhelmed by hyperbole.
...
Exactly, thanks black pebble.
That hyperbole is at a ludicrous level on here (the worst hyperbole in the world? ). People act like a really minor miscommunication affects their lives in a major way, when in reality it has almost no effect considering everyone is presenting with the same challenge. They also expect an inconceivable level of quality from a game with agile development and constantly changing content.
What’s worse is the noise people create on trivial things like this means when there is a genuine issue, say packs not containing the right characters or one that only affects a subset of people (like not being able to access the app, giving those that can an unfair advantage), there’s no way of turning the volume up past 11 and you guys at DB can’t tell it from the chaff.
I’ll repeat what I said earlier. Think DB have made some great changes recently (cryostasis etc), and the artwork on this event has vastly improved. Having communicated the wrong number of factions/missions in the forums (read by a small percentage of the playing population) is very minor in the context of the good things that have been happening. thanks DB
...ps - can I have the ability to track starbase donations from fleet members over an extended time please
An issue can be a genuine one for some players, even if it doesn't affect you. Consider a player I know that was relying on Romulan and Klingon items to immortalize characters. He had to airlock 4*s because of the miscommunication.
Your nescient attitude does nothing to help this conversation.
... But he can still do Romulan and Klingon missions after the Faction portion of the event? In 48 hours. Yes, this is inconvenient, but it's hardly the end of the world. If he absolutely needs the space, could he not freeze different characters for a couple of days? Pay dilithium for more crew space? Say "to heck with the event" and run Klingon and Romulan missions anyways?
Let's be clear here: our "nescient" attitudes are doing nothing to forward your position in this conversation. Personally, I submitted a ticket for the wasted merits and moved on with my life because in the end it's just a game. As much as I love it right now, eventually it'll fade and I'll move on to something else and I'd rather have the memories of the fun I had playing it. I realize not everyone has the same attitude as me, but that's my position in this conversation and it's every bit as valid.
So far, the posts in this thread have been, for the most part, within a reasonable band, so I'd prefer it if we can strive to not indulge in hyperbole or combativeness. Not having to moderate threads is cool.
TLDR: Try to be nice.
There are a few things to keep in mind.
Yes, we made mistakes for this week's event. Again. No one is happy about it. On the other hand, there have been consistent, but incremental improvements in a wide range of areas over the past several months. This is not an excuse or even a defense. It's a fact.
Yes, players have every right to be frustrated and disappointed in Disruptor Beam's consistency and inconsistency. However, it's difficult to truly understand that frustration when it's overwhelmed by hyperbole.
...
Exactly, thanks black pebble.
That hyperbole is at a ludicrous level on here (the worst hyperbole in the world? ). People act like a really minor miscommunication affects their lives in a major way, when in reality it has almost no effect considering everyone is presenting with the same challenge. They also expect an inconceivable level of quality from a game with agile development and constantly changing content.
What’s worse is the noise people create on trivial things like this means when there is a genuine issue, say packs not containing the right characters or one that only affects a subset of people (like not being able to access the app, giving those that can an unfair advantage), there’s no way of turning the volume up past 11 and you guys at DB can’t tell it from the chaff.
I’ll repeat what I said earlier. Think DB have made some great changes recently (cryostasis etc), and the artwork on this event has vastly improved. Having communicated the wrong number of factions/missions in the forums (read by a small percentage of the playing population) is very minor in the context of the good things that have been happening. thanks DB
...ps - can I have the ability to track starbase donations from fleet members over an extended time please
An issue can be a genuine one for some players, even if it doesn't affect you. Consider a player I know that was relying on Romulan and Klingon items to immortalize characters. He had to airlock 4*s because of the miscommunication.
Your nescient attitude does nothing to help this conversation.
... But he can still do Romulan and Klingon missions after the Faction portion of the event? In 48 hours. Yes, this is inconvenient, but it's hardly the end of the world. If he absolutely needs the space, could he not freeze different characters for a couple of days? Pay dilithium for more crew space? Say "to heck with the event" and run Klingon and Romulan missions anyways?
Let's be clear here: our "nescient" attitudes are doing nothing to forward your position in this conversation. Personally, I submitted a ticket for the wasted merits and moved on with my life because in the end it's just a game. As much as I love it right now, eventually it'll fade and I'll move on to something else and I'd rather have the memories of the fun I had playing it. I realize not everyone has the same attitude as me, but that's my position in this conversation and it's every bit as valid.
Why did you put nescient in quotations?
The player in question, like most new players, is in the midst of a severe crew slot crunch. She has no immortals to freeze and has extra 4* characters timing out and will lose them before the event ends. It's a familiar position for a lot of players, including myself when I first started.
I'm sitting in 200th place and doing just fine no matter what DB does, but I can ephathize with players in different situations.
I can't believe the overreaction to this issue. There was a minor miscommunication about the event factions. These things happen. There were fewer shuttle missions available but somehow the world isn't ending.
If such a minor issue is enough for you to break out the "hanging rope" and form a lynch mob maybe it is top for you to take a break.
This game is built on a delicate nest of code and databases that has been twisted into accomplishing things that humankind was never meant to understand. There is a price to pay for that kind of development.
Thank you for being honest.
Are there plans to remedy this? I've been in the development game a long time, and there are two things I know oh so well - nothing is more permanent than a temporary fix, and at some point that codebase just becomes unmanageable, and it becomes a time/cost calculation as to whether its worth rewriting or abandoning.
I don't see anything in the functionality that could not be done in a "proper" way, which would make the code unit, integration and system testable and simpler to update, which means the game gets a longer lifetime and more money heading to DB's coffers. It would also benefit DB's game development in general.
I think most players would be happy to re-run events for a while whilst a re-build was being done, and you've a community here happy to beta test. I can appreciate the new events and mega events are revenue earners, however this is a question of if DB looks to the long term or short term and what this says to the players.
Is it a case of making as much money as possible until the game is run into the ground? Or do DB want to keep the game for a long time?
This is the first mistake I've genuinely been irked at, and it isn't even a major mistake or the worst one encountered, it's just a case of the volume of them hitting critical mass.
The atmosphere on the board is also getting more toxic with every mistake, we appreciate the mea culpas, we'd appreciate a sense that you're working on making them no longer being necessary even more.
A great number of players, perhaps a majority, don't want Kahless in the honour hall. It reduces diversity and leads to more walls of the same character. On any 50/50 issue like this, half of the players are going to support what they do.
Removing Kahless will not undo the fact that you can end up facing walls of him. Adding other characters that are arguably better (but not necessarily objectively better, because then you just get a wall of that) will fix that. Or adding some kind of additional mechanic in the gauntlet to reward not just picking the highest numbers.
Removing Kahless would only make it so that everyone who managed to get him before the cut-off will have an invincible wall that newer players who missed their chance wouldn't ever get.
A great number of players, perhaps a majority, don't want Kahless in the honour hall. It reduces diversity and leads to more walls of the same character. On any 50/50 issue like this, half of the players are going to support what they do.
Removing Kahless will not undo the fact that you can end up facing walls of him. Adding other characters that are arguably better (but not necessarily objectively better, because then you just get a wall of that) will fix that. Or adding some kind of additional mechanic in the gauntlet to reward not just picking the highest numbers.
Removing Kahless would only make it so that everyone who managed to get him before the cut-off will have an invincible wall that newer players who missed their chance wouldn't ever get.
Walls of Kahless are actually rather rare right now. The single biggest problem in gauntlet is walls of Mirror Picard and it's because they made him available to everyone. Now they are doubling down on that blunder by leaving Kahless in. We already know it's a mistake because we have the proof.
This game is built on a delicate nest of code and databases that has been twisted into accomplishing things that humankind was never meant to understand. There is a price to pay for that kind of development.
Thank you for being honest.
Are there plans to remedy this? I've been in the development game a long time, and there are two things I know oh so well - nothing is more permanent than a temporary fix, and at some point that codebase just becomes unmanageable, and it becomes a time/cost calculation as to whether its worth rewriting or abandoning.
I don't see anything in the functionality that could not be done in a "proper" way, which would make the code unit, integration and system testable and simpler to update, which means the game gets a longer lifetime and more money heading to DB's coffers. It would also benefit DB's game development in general.
I think most players would be happy to re-run events for a while whilst a re-build was being done, and you've a community here happy to beta test. I can appreciate the new events and mega events are revenue earners, however this is a question of if DB looks to the long term or short term and what this says to the players.
Is it a case of making as much money as possible until the game is run into the ground? Or do DB want to keep the game for a long time?
This is the first mistake I've genuinely been irked at, and it isn't even a major mistake or the worst one encountered, it's just a case of the volume of them hitting critical mass.
The atmosphere on the board is also getting more toxic with every mistake, we appreciate the mea culpas, we'd appreciate a sense that you're working on making them no longer being necessary even more.
Thank you for a post that encapsulates what I was trying to say in other posts so much better than I was able to do.
Earlier, I mentioned how actions often have unintended consequences. For me, the part of the attempt to calm the masses with the portrayal that this game is "delicate" to code/run has raised serious concerns for me. The mistakes, and the growing frustration seen on the forum (which seems to me to be by both the players and admins) is frankly now minor for me. I will be watching for an answer to the "delicate" nature of the game, and what the future plans are.
Comments
Words are cheap. They're especially cheap when you continuously recycle the same words event after event, week after week, month after month...
Eventually, those words grow stale.
@Black Pebble Nicely said, would have been great to hear several hours ago, at the beginning of issues instead of hours later after realizing how upset we were
As a father my kids would never be allowed to get away with that
Im not trying to mano-o-mano you
But there have been no
"We understand that apologies and even Sorrytons stop mattering after a while."
You guys did not even make a effort to apologies or sent merits or sorrytons
Instead you basically said we are going to do what we want deal with it
As for mistakes yes we get that your human not computers, mistakes will happen, its not the mistakes that happen that we are upset with its how your handling them that has us up in arms
Maybe we are being ungrateful in your eyes, but in our eyes will feel like your blowing us off, which really gets under the skin when your paying someone for a product
Only takes a few mins to post something detailed and maybe a day to do a mass email
Yes your jobs are not easy, really so in the case of you fourm guys as you take the it on the chin more then the rest
If a mistake (not lie ) happens jump on it, admit there was a mistake and throw some t shirts at the crowd
It cost you nothing and gains you everthing
Yesyes there will still be some complaints, and grumbling but its a heck of lot better then pitchfirks and torchs
We love your dam game, its why we **tsk tsk**
Yes its frustrating to you but its the same for us to
So explain and make right on your mistake
Love
Mbanner
(Drops mic and walks away)
With this in mind, I ask once again..... Can we please PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE back off on the events every single week so more testing and work can be done to make sure that the code works and that the correct information concerning it is conveyed to us??
If you go to pay for your purchases that came to $5.17 and to provide a $10 and say "I have the change", but a quick check of your pockets reveals you don't, what you should say is "I was mistaken".
If you say "I lied," the appropriate reaction is to throw you out of the store.
Your example struck a cord with me. That is exactly why I usually say "they said blah blah blah". That way under no definition is what I said untrue: even if the information proves false, it remains true that they said it.
I'd like to congratulate DB: they have managed to destroy in an instant any credibility that Shan has built up over a long time. We may believe that Shan will always tell the truth, but that doesn't matter if we believe that Shan isn't being told the truth.
The forums are a tiny cross-section of the player base, but sentiments here likely speak to a larger picture. How many players leave without saying anything, over cumulative issues, and apparent disconnect between the essence of Trek and DB?
I get the impression that this game could be far more successful and enduring, and that the number who leave or don't become more involved in the first place, is underestimated.
STT seems set up to be a (typical?) mobile game to be burnt through quickly, but Trekkies are an exceptionally ardent and loyal group - following a franchise for several decades so far. Given enough respect and a game that is true to the nature of Trek, it could be a long term and evolving gold mine for a lucky company which has the rights and realizes what they have in their player base.
~· Fly with the Subspace Eddies! ·~
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I understand the game is built on a shaky infrastructure, but these problems are not just about the shaky code.
What part of the shaky code is responsible for messing up the factions included in this event? Did the designers not know it would be 1 faction? Was the announcement auto-generated? Or is there a human process that screwed up communicating to Shan the factions?
What part of the shaky code is responsible for generating the faction missions? Did the designers not know that there would only be 12 missions? Or is there a human process that made a change and neglected to tell Shan or the players?
If the issues were just limited to server lags or other technical issues I would understand the struggles, but these are human issues caused by a bad process. And that you continue to blame technical struggles for this shows you don't understand the actual issue.
Black Pebble's apology is good enough for me. I've noticed, there are times when am apology is difficult at best, extremely painful at worst. Some people NEVER apologize.
Some people lie. They even admit to it (presidents included). Pretty damned sure DB weren't lying here, I can't begin to imagine why they would do that, knowing the flame wars that spring up almost weekly on their forums. They made a mistake. And apologized. More than once.
Cool. I'm enjoying the event. Thanks DB. The art is fantastic and Nurse Garland's voyage stats also great, and if I can get more Rom all the better.
Thanks to Black Pebble, Shan and all the devs for giving me a fun weekend!
Check out our website to find out more:
https://wiki.tenforwardloungers.com/
Thanks for the response @Black Pebble
I think what bothers me most is not the mistakes, but the lack of transparency.
There is a reason you changed to 12 missions. You sat down and had a meeting and decided to change this event. I don't need to know why, but how come you didn't tell us immediately? This kind of stuff doesn't need to be a secret.
The same goes for the portal. Why did you promise to update it and then not follow through? We know it's not a code issue because you add others like 2* Burnham. For God sakes, just tell us the reason instead of making vague statements that never come to fruition.
A meaningful response to this would be extremely, EXTREMELY appreciated. Give us some insight into how things work. The players aren't stupid we may have good ideas. The best games take advice from customers. You do not and never have.
This idea does not give me warm, fuzzy feelings. Awhile ago, I spent quite a bit of time building up characters in another game, only to have them stop updates, then totally stop providing it, because the code was too old. Is that what I can expect from STT, maybe soon if it is really that shaky? If so, why should I invest my time/money in it, just to have it all go "poof"? Any reassurances?
(I know this is a "card" game, but is it actually a "house of cards"?)
[BTW, I have twice tried to put an actual name into the "guestXXXX" spot, but it didn't work. So I'm just remaining a guest...]
Yes from a development standpoint and product standpoint strides have been made. Changes to the Cryostasis vault, the implementation (yet nerfing) of Voyages, and the final slaying after a year of the audio takeover bug allowing some of us
However, from a communications standpoint, y'all have made more steps back and than forward, moving event notifications later, yet still making the same mistakes that were supposed to be minimized or avoided by making those timeframe changes.
You have made it sound like the code here is a main issue. From my limited perspective that does not appear to be the case, at least in this and in several of the recent incidents, from this former Analyst and current Engineers perspective. This feels from this outsiders perspective to be a people and process issue. QC and QA that validates changes made provides empirical evidence that things are actually working as intended. Communication of the exact results of those changes in their entirety AFTER said QC and QA checks then leads to proper information being presented. Of course that also assumes that said QA and QC checks include all possible permutations
And none of that has to do with how spaghetti, linguine or penne the code is.
I'm not sure I agree that they never have. There were complaints about the artwork, they fixed it. There were complaints about the lack of strong MED - the last three weeks have each featured at least one MED, and before that the month-long recurring character was one (not to mention both of the new Honor Hall characters AND the Gauntlet character). There were complaints from people who didn't think Kahless should leave the Honor Hall when he was replaced - so they kept him. There were complaints about too many new characters every week - again, the last three events have featured at least one existing character each. There were complaints about the lack of Expedition events - they brought it back (and then it flopped massively and I'm going to hope we haven't had another since because they're ironing the kinks out). There were complaints about the lag at the start of Faction events, so they tried to fix it with a solution that everyone ended up hating. Heck, there were complaints about the Best Of ship packs, and now the most recent one is a guaranteed pack instead.
These are all within the last three months.
Just because they don't start every announcement with "We listened to you and VOILA" doesn't mean they aren't listening. It's disingenuous to imply otherwise just because they haven't addressed every single gripe every single person on the forums has.
It looks like most or all of us assumed the fault lay in the code. People reported that the number of missions available was incorrect as a bug.
But instead of being told the bug couldn't be addressed while the event is running, they were told it was working as intended. And when it was pointed out that the way it was working contradicts statements about how it would work made in the recent past, they were told that those statements had been incorrect. Not that things had changed since then, but that those statements had been incorrect at the time they were made.
Which leads to the obvious question: given these statements, is there any logical reason to believe anything DB or its spokespeople say?
Note that I am not saying that we should automatically assume anything they say is false. Quite the opposite; I am saying that the truth of what they say is unreliable.
That's your perspective, but let me offer you a different one.
The best art in the game came at the start. We asked them to keep it coming when the quality dropped and they did not. We went through several months of substandard art.
Strong medical characters have always been present in the same proportion that they are now. These last three weeks haven't changed anything.
A great number of players, perhaps a majority, don't want Kahless in the honour hall. It reduces diversity and leads to more walls of the same character. On any 50/50 issue like this, half of the players are going to support what they do.
These 3 weeks of existing characters comes on the heels of an extended stretch of new characters. These complaints have always existed and I'm hesitant to say that they have made any conscious effort to change.
Expedition events were extremely popular in their original state (perhaps before you started playing), but they messed with them to make more money and then royally screwed up the event at Christmas with bugs and bad decisions. That's a prime example of not listening to the players.
DB does their own thing and nothing will change that. They think they know what will make players pay more than we do and maybe they are right.
If that's your opinion then so be it. You're incorrect about a couple of things, but make some decent points.
I based my statement on the facts available, which are few and far between. There is no definitive proof that they have ever listened to a single thing that the players have said and there is not a lot of evidence that they don't listen(at least in some rare circumstances).
I for one think that my life isn't in shambles because I can't run rommulan and Klingon factions for vp points.
The fact that there were only 12 missions instead of 18 or 20, was only challenging to me. How to perform a quickstart with these conditions with only 5 sec on the clock....... thank you db for this extra game element during the start of the event. You should do it more often, it keeps us on our toes.
And thank you black pebble for taking the time to explaining life with the game as metaphor, very enlightening.
And yes I did notice the improvements of the different game-elements over the past few months, kudos to your art department, with their latest work. I simply love the improvements of the vault, could quickly find my frozen athletes.
And seriously DB is not a car dealer, but even then as the recalls lately, very poor metaphor.
I belong to group of players that knew the game bf cryo vaults, arena battles and events, this game got over time so much more layers, I really appreciate the development over time and the thought in all the new elements, especially collections, very nice.
So this post is actually as a few before me, an appreciation for all the work DB crew put in the game and give a different sound in this thread for moral support for shan and black pebble, that got a lot of unnecessary harsh language in this thread for something in the grand scheme of things as insignificant.
Keep up the good work and thank you for this game
So far this event, excluding the kickstart missions, I have run 24 missions, with the posted success rates ranging from 94% - 98%. However, the actual success rate I've experienced is 71% (17/24). This has gone from being frustrating to being a complete joke.
Between the "miscommunications", utterly useless faction success rates, and canned customer service responses with regards to faction missions performance, this has been a very frustrating day to be a STT player. For shame DB.
Shouldn't that be "Your pain runs deep... Share your pain. Share your pain with me, and gain strength from the sharing..."?
I feel your pain on this one. Agile is hard to do consistently even with experienced pros. The changes in staff probably made this even more difficult.
I think most of us know it really isn't @Shan and your ( @Black Pebble ) fault, but "venters gotta vent...". Your explanation is much appreciated in trying to inform us on what's going on and to let us know that we are not being ignored. That being said, I can't help but say that weekly "hiccups" are almost reflexively and instinctively expected by me personally...
Exactly, thanks black pebble.
That hyperbole is at a ludicrous level on here (the worst hyperbole in the world?
What’s worse is the noise people create on trivial things like this means when there is a genuine issue, say packs not containing the right characters or one that only affects a subset of people (like not being able to access the app, giving those that can an unfair advantage), there’s no way of turning the volume up past 11 and you guys at DB can’t tell it from the chaff.
I’ll repeat what I said earlier. Think DB have made some great changes recently (cryostasis etc), and the artwork on this event has vastly improved. Having communicated the wrong number of factions/missions in the forums (read by a small percentage of the playing population) is very minor in the context of the good things that have been happening. thanks DB
...ps - can I have the ability to track starbase donations from fleet members over an extended time please
An issue can be a genuine one for some players, even if it doesn't affect you. Consider a player I know that was relying on Romulan and Klingon items to immortalize characters. He had to airlock 4*s because of the miscommunication.
Your nescient attitude does nothing to help this conversation.
er, no he didnt
... But he can still do Romulan and Klingon missions after the Faction portion of the event? In 48 hours. Yes, this is inconvenient, but it's hardly the end of the world. If he absolutely needs the space, could he not freeze different characters for a couple of days? Pay dilithium for more crew space? Say "to heck with the event" and run Klingon and Romulan missions anyways?
Let's be clear here: our "nescient" attitudes are doing nothing to forward your position in this conversation. Personally, I submitted a ticket for the wasted merits and moved on with my life because in the end it's just a game. As much as I love it right now, eventually it'll fade and I'll move on to something else and I'd rather have the memories of the fun I had playing it. I realize not everyone has the same attitude as me, but that's my position in this conversation and it's every bit as valid.
Why did you put nescient in quotations?
The player in question, like most new players, is in the midst of a severe crew slot crunch. She has no immortals to freeze and has extra 4* characters timing out and will lose them before the event ends. It's a familiar position for a lot of players, including myself when I first started.
I'm sitting in 200th place and doing just fine no matter what DB does, but I can ephathize with players in different situations.
If such a minor issue is enough for you to break out the "hanging rope" and form a lynch mob maybe it is top for you to take a break.
Thank you for being honest.
Are there plans to remedy this? I've been in the development game a long time, and there are two things I know oh so well - nothing is more permanent than a temporary fix, and at some point that codebase just becomes unmanageable, and it becomes a time/cost calculation as to whether its worth rewriting or abandoning.
I don't see anything in the functionality that could not be done in a "proper" way, which would make the code unit, integration and system testable and simpler to update, which means the game gets a longer lifetime and more money heading to DB's coffers. It would also benefit DB's game development in general.
I think most players would be happy to re-run events for a while whilst a re-build was being done, and you've a community here happy to beta test. I can appreciate the new events and mega events are revenue earners, however this is a question of if DB looks to the long term or short term and what this says to the players.
Is it a case of making as much money as possible until the game is run into the ground? Or do DB want to keep the game for a long time?
This is the first mistake I've genuinely been irked at, and it isn't even a major mistake or the worst one encountered, it's just a case of the volume of them hitting critical mass.
The atmosphere on the board is also getting more toxic with every mistake, we appreciate the mea culpas, we'd appreciate a sense that you're working on making them no longer being necessary even more.
Removing Kahless will not undo the fact that you can end up facing walls of him. Adding other characters that are arguably better (but not necessarily objectively better, because then you just get a wall of that) will fix that. Or adding some kind of additional mechanic in the gauntlet to reward not just picking the highest numbers.
Removing Kahless would only make it so that everyone who managed to get him before the cut-off will have an invincible wall that newer players who missed their chance wouldn't ever get.
Also got this Behold, and Took APU:
Walls of Kahless are actually rather rare right now. The single biggest problem in gauntlet is walls of Mirror Picard and it's because they made him available to everyone. Now they are doubling down on that blunder by leaving Kahless in. We already know it's a mistake because we have the proof.
Thank you for a post that encapsulates what I was trying to say in other posts so much better than I was able to do.
Earlier, I mentioned how actions often have unintended consequences. For me, the part of the attempt to calm the masses with the portrayal that this game is "delicate" to code/run has raised serious concerns for me. The mistakes, and the growing frustration seen on the forum (which seems to me to be by both the players and admins) is frankly now minor for me. I will be watching for an answer to the "delicate" nature of the game, and what the future plans are.