Also, I know from reading the forum a lot of players don't like non-canon crew, but I think the push against them may limit the longevity of the game. We're already starting to dig fairly deep into obscurity for new crew, or new variants of main crew, and if we don't embrace at least SOME mix of non-canon crew the obscurity will increase.
Does it get more obscure than non-canon? Wouldn't a one-off Patterns of Force Spock be preferable to Mirror Protomorphosis Augment Gungslinger Spock?
Not if you want to continue selling the product in Germany.
Germany does allow Nazi symbolism in art (movies, TV etc.) but videogames have always been an area of dispute (see: Wolfenstein). It's possible it could get the game banned in Germany, but someone would likely have to complain, and DB may just remove/modify the crew for German players (not sure if that's technically feasible in this platform).
Because erasing history to preserve feelings is the best way to go. Ridiculous.
It's not about erasing history. It's about being conscious of the symbols that were used by a dictatorial regime, and making sure they're not being used today to glorify said regime or any modern day would-be followers.
Please don't make broad statements like that which negate all the efforts that go into keeping public awareness of those past terrors alive.
Also, I know from reading the forum a lot of players don't like non-canon crew, but I think the push against them may limit the longevity of the game. We're already starting to dig fairly deep into obscurity for new crew, or new variants of main crew, and if we don't embrace at least SOME mix of non-canon crew the obscurity will increase.
Does it get more obscure than non-canon? Wouldn't a one-off Patterns of Force Spock be preferable to Mirror Protomorphosis Augment Gungslinger Spock?
Not if you want to continue selling the product in Germany.
Germany does allow Nazi symbolism in art (movies, TV etc.) but videogames have always been an area of dispute (see: Wolfenstein). It's possible it could get the game banned in Germany, but someone would likely have to complain, and DB may just remove/modify the crew for German players (not sure if that's technically feasible in this platform).
Because erasing history to preserve feelings is the best way to go. Ridiculous.
It's not about erasing history. It's about being conscious of the symbols that were used by a dictatorial regime, and making sure they're not being used today to glorify said regime or any modern day would-be followers.
Please don't make broad statements like that which negate all the efforts that go into keeping public awareness of those past terrors alive.
Yeah, the reason Germany specifically does that, is they're concerned about lingering Nazi sentiments and they don't want anything to be used for glorification. This was particularly relevant a few decades ago.
Also, like I said, they do make exceptions for movies, TV, books and historical retellings (documentaries etc). They are definitely not trying to erase it, they're just trying to be careful with it.
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Great event except for the drone seven. I would be tempted to buy packs except that drone seven has low stats, is difficult to lvl up, and I already have her ff/fe. She was vaulted right after borg mega event and only comes out for seven events. So no packs for me, will save for an event with three new people.
This comment makes it sound to me like having an Existing 4* character as Event crew is somehow exceptional at this time, and that Events with "three new people" are the norm … I think the opposite is true, with the current trend being to have 2 New and 1 Existing character in most Events
I think the issue is not that there is existing crew in the event.
Its THIS crew.
1) Its Seven - out of theme
2) It's Drone Seven that's been in several events AND was a login giveaway. So a ton of the userbase (though not all) has her FF.
You didn't see quite so many folks having an issue with Arik Soong or Young Khan in this very mega.
So what makes this event different from the Borg Mega which had Arik Soong and Mirror Phlox?
The whole "character unrelated to the mega even theme" thing has been around since the start of mega events.
If you go back in old forum posts you will see that there was some flack on the Soong and the Phlox.
Great event except for the drone seven. I would be tempted to buy packs except that drone seven has low stats, is difficult to lvl up, and I already have her ff/fe. She was vaulted right after borg mega event and only comes out for seven events. So no packs for me, will save for an event with three new people.
This comment makes it sound to me like having an Existing 4* character as Event crew is somehow exceptional at this time, and that Events with "three new people" are the norm … I think the opposite is true, with the current trend being to have 2 New and 1 Existing character in most Events
I think the issue is not that there is existing crew in the event.
Its THIS crew.
1) Its Seven - out of theme
2) It's Drone Seven that's been in several events AND was a login giveaway. So a ton of the userbase (though not all) has her FF.
You didn't see quite so many folks having an issue with Arik Soong or Young Khan in this very mega.
I agree with you @Pallidyne that since Drone Seven of Nine was available from September through December of 2017 through Daily Rewards (the fact she has only been in 1 previous Event is not important), many not newer players will have her FF'd. (FYI, regarding Young Khan, he was available just after this in January 2018 during the rerun of the Galaxy Event Triple Threat 2.)
I also agree with you that many players are feeling Drone Seven of Nine does not belong in this Mega Event due to its theme.
Having said this, for this particular event I think the following is still true:
- many of the players who already had Seven of Nine Immortalized, also have a large number of other Existing 4* characters also Immortalized, including ones that would have been more 'thematically pleasing' to them
Speaking in more general terms, @(HGH)Apollo stated he would be saving for "an event with three new people". I think his issue with the current Event pack will continue arising for him and many other players (i.e., obviously not the newer ones) going forward, assuming DB continues with the trend of having of 2 New and 1 Existing character in Events. Basically, I think the longer version of this story is:
- DB used to frequently create Events with 3 New characters (i.e., the Event 5* and two 4*'s)
- many players complained about New characters being added to the game at this rate
- many players communicated they would prefer having Events with 2 New characters and 1 Existing character
- DB has relatively recently made a change where most Events now do have 2 New characters and 1 Existing character
- now that Event packs include an Existing character, there are players who are complaining about the pack featuring someone they already have Immortalized
I do not know whether you @Pallidyne , or our friend @(HGH)Apollo , were amongst those players who were advocating for Events to not have all New characters. But I will ask both of you whether you can at least agree with me on the following: any of those players who wanted Existing characters to be included as Event crew, should not complain now about an Event pack including a character they already have Immortalized.
"- many of the players who already had Seven of Nine Immortalized, also have a large number of other Existing 4* characters also Immortalized, including ones that would have been more 'thematically pleasing' to them"
I'm glad you stated you think because I think that is only one side of the Venn Diagram. The other side is the coincidence of folks who have Seven FFed but do not have a large number of 4s immortalized. I think that number is actually fairly large and possibly larger than the previous group.
" any of those players who wanted Existing characters to be included as Event crew, should not complain now about an Event pack including a character they already have Immortalized."
I agree with this in spirit. And if it was just me having them maxed, that's fine. I've actually had all of the existing 4s maxed in each of these events so far. I still stand by my statement that I feel that Seven is a poor choice.
A big difference between megas we have now and the first ones, is that the first ones were all one theme. Borg, Klingon, Discovery, Mirror. So a character deviation gave a break in what some perceived a monotony. (Hell in getting Gagh or Bloodwine continuously for Klingon.). Now that we have two colliding themes there are less seats for each thematic component. Add on the fact that this was a user choice set of themes, meaning the folks voting wanted MORE of those two items.
And lets get real here, I've been playing a long time and taken a few 10x10 offers and such and I have exactly 14 4s not FF right now. (And that includes pack only ones that I've not even got the first star on.) (Being a collector and not an airlocker if I can help it drives this...) And I do need honor for my 5s. But it's not just me that has Seven FFed, its the lowest scoring guy in my squad who only has fewer than 20 4s FFed. Its every member of my fleet who has weighed in, which not one of the elite ones. (Not saying we **tsk tsk**, just a good mix of high/mid/low powered folks).
You try to answer it point by point, and each point fairly valid, but I'd like to state that it is not the individual points, but the intersection of all of these that is leading to the negative reception. Its the commonality of the character + lack of thematic tie in. Not and -- plus.
It's honestly being blown out of proportion by some, but I also think it is being over minimized by others.
There doesnt have to be three all new crew for events but the repeating super rare should be one that has not been used much. Like when Ardra was in an event she was an existing crewmember but not one many had. Or use a super rare that was in an event but a long time ago. Or if it is a common super rare make sure it is one with good stats. Many have seven and her stats are not good enough to want a second copy. And as this is a galaxy event I cant use more than one copy like I could in a faction event. So buying packs for this event is a losing proposition for me. I like to only buy packs with crew I dont have any of or whom I dont have fully fused, or whom their stats are good enough to warrant a second copy. I had no problem when db did three all new crew provided one was a crew with many different versions of so people could have bonus crew.
Sarina just bumped 2-skill Stamey from my top 4 in science base Take that Disco power creep!
But Graduation Burnham is still beating her, hehe.
Yes, my top four are the same. I keep the Fun Sponge around, but I make sure everyone on board ship (down to the newest cadet) knows that Fun Sponge has absolutely no authority to change crew assignments. She is also not allowed in the recreation rooms without being escorted by a senior officer.
Sarina just bumped 2-skill Stamey from my top 4 in science base Take that Disco power creep!
But Graduation Burnham is still beating her, hehe.
Yes, my top four are the same. I keep the Fun Sponge around, but I make sure everyone on board ship (down to the newest cadet) knows that Fun Sponge has absolutely no authority to change crew assignments. She is also not allowed in the recreation rooms without being escorted by a senior officer.
I have Mariachi Q keep an eye on her...it works quite well.
Glad for Sarina's appearance, but I think the romantic trait is wrong. Bashir was the one who got all romantic on her; she was actually freaked out by his advances. Oh well, guess they had to give her something...
It's been awhile since I saw her episodes, but didn't she sing at one point? Musician might be an appropriate trait fot her.
Also, I know from reading the forum a lot of players don't like non-canon crew, but I think the push against them may limit the longevity of the game. We're already starting to dig fairly deep into obscurity for new crew, or new variants of main crew, and if we don't embrace at least SOME mix of non-canon crew the obscurity will increase.
Does it get more obscure than non-canon? Wouldn't a one-off Patterns of Force Spock be preferable to Mirror Protomorphosis Augment Gungslinger Spock?
Not if you want to continue selling the product in Germany.
Germany does allow Nazi symbolism in art (movies, TV etc.) but videogames have always been an area of dispute (see: Wolfenstein). It's possible it could get the game banned in Germany, but someone would likely have to complain, and DB may just remove/modify the crew for German players (not sure if that's technically feasible in this platform).
Because erasing history to preserve feelings is the best way to go. Ridiculous.
It's not about erasing history. Germany is one of the most historically aware countries in the world. It's about avoiding the perception of glorifying or normalising Nazism, in case it returns.
Also, I know from reading the forum a lot of players don't like non-canon crew, but I think the push against them may limit the longevity of the game. We're already starting to dig fairly deep into obscurity for new crew, or new variants of main crew, and if we don't embrace at least SOME mix of non-canon crew the obscurity will increase.
Does it get more obscure than non-canon? Wouldn't a one-off Patterns of Force Spock be preferable to Mirror Protomorphosis Augment Gungslinger Spock?
Not if you want to continue selling the product in Germany.
Germany does allow Nazi symbolism in art (movies, TV etc.) but videogames have always been an area of dispute (see: Wolfenstein). It's possible it could get the game banned in Germany, but someone would likely have to complain, and DB may just remove/modify the crew for German players (not sure if that's technically feasible in this platform).
Because erasing history to preserve feelings is the best way to go. Ridiculous.
It's not about erasing history. Germany is one of the most historically aware countries in the world. It's about avoiding the perception of glorifying or normalising Nazism, in case it returns.
Yes exactly and to not allow hateful imagery that those of hate can unite behind and spread hate again. Fascism and neo nazism are on the rise once more throughout the world and we would do well by resisting it otherwise we could see a full repeat of that dark chapter in history.
Also, I know from reading the forum a lot of players don't like non-canon crew, but I think the push against them may limit the longevity of the game. We're already starting to dig fairly deep into obscurity for new crew, or new variants of main crew, and if we don't embrace at least SOME mix of non-canon crew the obscurity will increase.
Does it get more obscure than non-canon? Wouldn't a one-off Patterns of Force Spock be preferable to Mirror Protomorphosis Augment Gungslinger Spock?
Not if you want to continue selling the product in Germany.
Germany does allow Nazi symbolism in art (movies, TV etc.) but videogames have always been an area of dispute (see: Wolfenstein). It's possible it could get the game banned in Germany, but someone would likely have to complain, and DB may just remove/modify the crew for German players (not sure if that's technically feasible in this platform).
Because erasing history to preserve feelings is the best way to go. Ridiculous.
It's not about erasing history. Germany is one of the most historically aware countries in the world. It's about avoiding the perception of glorifying or normalising Nazism, in case it returns.
Yes exactly and to not allow hateful imagery that those of hate can unite behind and spread hate again. Fascism and neo nazism are on the rise once more throughout the world and we would do well by resisting it otherwise we could see a full repeat of that dark chapter in history.
Just staving it off for a while longer. Human history is rife with eugenics, from eunuchs in the Middle East, to the sterilization of underwhelming people in Japanese culture, to the murder of gays by Abrahamic religions, and constant racial wars and progroms against Jews, Gypsies, whoever takes your fancy at the time. Hitler just attempted to be somewhat scientific, that's all. And that freaked people out. But get real here. Eugenics is still going on right now, but people ignore it because it's in the name of religion. If it wasn't, or it was white people doing it, there'd be an uproar.
And that's eugenics on humans. We haven't even looked at what we've been doing to animals and plants for thousands of years. Eugenics, war and fascistic control throughout our bloody history. I don't know why we always freak out about Hitler when pretty much everyone else has had a go since time immemorial.
Also, I know from reading the forum a lot of players don't like non-canon crew, but I think the push against them may limit the longevity of the game. We're already starting to dig fairly deep into obscurity for new crew, or new variants of main crew, and if we don't embrace at least SOME mix of non-canon crew the obscurity will increase.
Does it get more obscure than non-canon? Wouldn't a one-off Patterns of Force Spock be preferable to Mirror Protomorphosis Augment Gungslinger Spock?
Not if you want to continue selling the product in Germany.
Germany does allow Nazi symbolism in art (movies, TV etc.) but videogames have always been an area of dispute (see: Wolfenstein). It's possible it could get the game banned in Germany, but someone would likely have to complain, and DB may just remove/modify the crew for German players (not sure if that's technically feasible in this platform).
Because erasing history to preserve feelings is the best way to go. Ridiculous.
It's not about erasing history. Germany is one of the most historically aware countries in the world. It's about avoiding the perception of glorifying or normalising Nazism, in case it returns.
Yes exactly and to not allow hateful imagery that those of hate can unite behind and spread hate again. Fascism and neo nazism are on the rise once more throughout the world and we would do well by resisting it otherwise we could see a full repeat of that dark chapter in history.
Just staving it off for a while longer. Human history is rife with eugenics, from eunuchs in the Middle East, to the sterilization of underwhelming people in Japanese culture, to the murder of gays by Abrahamic religions, and constant racial wars and progroms against Jews, Gypsies, whoever takes your fancy at the time. Hitler just attempted to be somewhat scientific, that's all. And that freaked people out. But get real here. Eugenics is still going on right now, but people ignore it because it's in the name of religion. If it wasn't, or it was white people doing it, there'd be an uproar.
And that's eugenics on humans. We haven't even looked at what we've been doing to animals and plants for thousands of years. Eugenics, war and fascistic control throughout our bloody history. I don't know why we always freak out about Hitler when pretty much everyone else has had a go since time immemorial.
I think Hitler is the poster boy because he was not only blatantly obvious, but also successful in a large scale. Wasn't it 6+ mil of Jews alone not counting the other 'undesirables' he had taken out? Something like 2/3 of all European Jews? There's not a lot of folks who have achieved that in non-combatants in the last several generations. I mean if you look at Stalin he was more purging classes than races and attempting to rewrite behaviour, but may have hit that bodycount. Hitler has also been the rallying cry for the white flavour of the problematic behaviour crowd.
Now does that mean he was worse than Idi Amin, Sadaam Hussein or insert Chinese leader trying to kill off the Tibetans here? Depends on your yardstick. We tend to hold up athletes who were more successful and call them better... maybe the same can be said for villains.
But your point is well taken. Since the beginning of the planet there's been some folks bent on killing off folks who aren't them or aren't like them.
Comments
It's not about erasing history. It's about being conscious of the symbols that were used by a dictatorial regime, and making sure they're not being used today to glorify said regime or any modern day would-be followers.
Please don't make broad statements like that which negate all the efforts that go into keeping public awareness of those past terrors alive.
Yeah, the reason Germany specifically does that, is they're concerned about lingering Nazi sentiments and they don't want anything to be used for glorification. This was particularly relevant a few decades ago.
Also, like I said, they do make exceptions for movies, TV, books and historical retellings (documentaries etc). They are definitely not trying to erase it, they're just trying to be careful with it.
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If you go back in old forum posts you will see that there was some flack on the Soong and the Phlox.
"- many of the players who already had Seven of Nine Immortalized, also have a large number of other Existing 4* characters also Immortalized, including ones that would have been more 'thematically pleasing' to them"
I'm glad you stated you think because I think that is only one side of the Venn Diagram. The other side is the coincidence of folks who have Seven FFed but do not have a large number of 4s immortalized. I think that number is actually fairly large and possibly larger than the previous group.
" any of those players who wanted Existing characters to be included as Event crew, should not complain now about an Event pack including a character they already have Immortalized."
I agree with this in spirit. And if it was just me having them maxed, that's fine. I've actually had all of the existing 4s maxed in each of these events so far. I still stand by my statement that I feel that Seven is a poor choice.
A big difference between megas we have now and the first ones, is that the first ones were all one theme. Borg, Klingon, Discovery, Mirror. So a character deviation gave a break in what some perceived a monotony. (Hell in getting Gagh or Bloodwine continuously for Klingon.). Now that we have two colliding themes there are less seats for each thematic component. Add on the fact that this was a user choice set of themes, meaning the folks voting wanted MORE of those two items.
And lets get real here, I've been playing a long time and taken a few 10x10 offers and such and I have exactly 14 4s not FF right now. (And that includes pack only ones that I've not even got the first star on.) (Being a collector and not an airlocker if I can help it drives this...) And I do need honor for my 5s. But it's not just me that has Seven FFed, its the lowest scoring guy in my squad who only has fewer than 20 4s FFed. Its every member of my fleet who has weighed in, which not one of the elite ones. (Not saying we **tsk tsk**, just a good mix of high/mid/low powered folks).
You try to answer it point by point, and each point fairly valid, but I'd like to state that it is not the individual points, but the intersection of all of these that is leading to the negative reception. Its the commonality of the character + lack of thematic tie in. Not and -- plus.
It's honestly being blown out of proportion by some, but I also think it is being over minimized by others.
An overdue and welcome change.
Perhaps this suggestion would be a good solution to the problem
But Graduation Burnham is still beating her, hehe.
And it looks like you've got a whole slew of Cryo Collection rewards to collect.
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
Yes, my top four are the same. I keep the Fun Sponge around, but I make sure everyone on board ship (down to the newest cadet) knows that Fun Sponge has absolutely no authority to change crew assignments. She is also not allowed in the recreation rooms without being escorted by a senior officer.
I have Mariachi Q keep an eye on her...it works quite well.
It's been awhile since I saw her episodes, but didn't she sing at one point? Musician might be an appropriate trait fot her.
Yes she did! The other augment misfits started singing scales to help Sarina with her speech and they ended up doing a lengthy harmonic improvisation.
I agree with GaghGagh's post also - the Prodigy trait seems fitting as well.
It's not about erasing history. Germany is one of the most historically aware countries in the world. It's about avoiding the perception of glorifying or normalising Nazism, in case it returns.
Yes exactly and to not allow hateful imagery that those of hate can unite behind and spread hate again. Fascism and neo nazism are on the rise once more throughout the world and we would do well by resisting it otherwise we could see a full repeat of that dark chapter in history.
Just staving it off for a while longer. Human history is rife with eugenics, from eunuchs in the Middle East, to the sterilization of underwhelming people in Japanese culture, to the murder of gays by Abrahamic religions, and constant racial wars and progroms against Jews, Gypsies, whoever takes your fancy at the time. Hitler just attempted to be somewhat scientific, that's all. And that freaked people out. But get real here. Eugenics is still going on right now, but people ignore it because it's in the name of religion. If it wasn't, or it was white people doing it, there'd be an uproar.
And that's eugenics on humans. We haven't even looked at what we've been doing to animals and plants for thousands of years. Eugenics, war and fascistic control throughout our bloody history. I don't know why we always freak out about Hitler when pretty much everyone else has had a go since time immemorial.
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I think Hitler is the poster boy because he was not only blatantly obvious, but also successful in a large scale. Wasn't it 6+ mil of Jews alone not counting the other 'undesirables' he had taken out? Something like 2/3 of all European Jews? There's not a lot of folks who have achieved that in non-combatants in the last several generations. I mean if you look at Stalin he was more purging classes than races and attempting to rewrite behaviour, but may have hit that bodycount. Hitler has also been the rallying cry for the white flavour of the problematic behaviour crowd.
Now does that mean he was worse than Idi Amin, Sadaam Hussein or insert Chinese leader trying to kill off the Tibetans here? Depends on your yardstick. We tend to hold up athletes who were more successful and call them better... maybe the same can be said for villains.
But your point is well taken. Since the beginning of the planet there's been some folks bent on killing off folks who aren't them or aren't like them.
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She's also already proving useful for voyages. Great addition