Now, you know the Great Bird himself said repeatedly that 🌟 fleet is NOT military. They are just explorers and scientists. Like when Libya attacked two Navy Jets, and the US sent Jacques Cousteau to bomb their bases......
Yep. However subsequent writing staffs have blurred the lines on this issue.
"Starfleet is not a military organization, its purpose is exploration" - Captain Picard in Peak Performance
They certainly get embroiled in a lot of war though...
One of my biggest problems with Discovery is that it’s obvious none of the writers have been in the military, and are unwilling to hire and listen to advisors who have.
For those of us who have been in the military, the problems are extreme, and non-ignorable. The characters routinely flout the chain of command, and military customs and courtesies. Actions that should merit court martials, confinement, or dismissal from the service are punished by stern talking-tos or worse, are completely ignored.
And when we bring up these issues, we’re accused of being intolerant, which is true, but not in the sense that people are using it.
The military isn’t a warm, cuddly place where people join hands and sing kumbaya. There’s rules and regulations, and you follow them, or you can get out (or be kicked out.)
Heck, let’s get right to one of the most obvious issues: Tilly doesn’t meet height/weight requirements. I don’t say this because I’m mean and don’t like chubby people. I’m saying this because there are clear and obvious reasons that while aboard a military vessel, a military member needs to meet these requirements.
Instead, the writers have written the cast of Discovery like they’re members of a start-up. Just no.
Now, you know the Great Bird himself said repeatedly that 🌟 fleet is NOT military. They are just explorers and scientists. Like when Libya attacked two Navy Jets, and the US sent Jacques Cousteau to bomb their bases......
Starfleet isn’t military, but they observe traditional military hierarchy, structure, and tradition. Many of the people responsible for TOS and TNG were military and tried to make sure the characters acted like the professionals they were supposed to be.
Have we ever seen a science ship run well and doing good? How many science ships have been lost, abandoned, destroyed, in all the treks. Seemed like every other week TNG was running into an abandoned science vessel, destroyed science vessel, or disappeared science vessel. These ships are tiny with little resources except scanners and quite vulnerable.
Have we ever seen a science ship run well and doing good? How many science ships have been lost, abandoned, destroyed, in all the treks. Seemed like every other week TNG was running into an abandoned science vessel, destroyed science vessel, or disappeared science vessel. These ships are tiny with little resources except scanners and quite vulnerable.
This is a great point. So much precedence. Those science vessels didn't get their own series. They were just a blip in TNG. Lucero was just a blip in a Short Trek. Totally works.
One of my biggest problems with Discovery is that it’s obvious none of the writers have been in the military, and are unwilling to hire and listen to advisors who have.
For those of us who have been in the military, the problems are extreme, and non-ignorable. The characters routinely flout the chain of command, and military customs and courtesies. Actions that should merit court martials, confinement, or dismissal from the service are punished by stern talking-tos or worse, are completely ignored.
And when we bring up these issues, we’re accused of being intolerant, which is true, but not in the sense that people are using it.
The military isn’t a warm, cuddly place where people join hands and sing kumbaya. There’s rules and regulations, and you follow them, or you can get out (or be kicked out.)
Heck, let’s get right to one of the most obvious issues: Tilly doesn’t meet height/weight requirements. I don’t say this because I’m mean and don’t like chubby people. I’m saying this because there are clear and obvious reasons that while aboard a military vessel, a military member needs to meet these requirements.
Instead, the writers have written the cast of Discovery like they’re members of a start-up. Just no.
Now, you know the Great Bird himself said repeatedly that 🌟 fleet is NOT military. They are just explorers and scientists. Like when Libya attacked two Navy Jets, and the US sent Jacques Cousteau to bomb their bases......
Starfleet isn’t military, but they observe traditional military hierarchy, structure, and tradition. Many of the people responsible for TOS and TNG were military and tried to make sure the characters acted like the professionals they were supposed to be.
Yeah. Except I can't imagine a Navy SEAL or a Green Beret saying "I'm resigning to go fight a civil war in my Homeland." And then a few weeks later "Well, war is over. I'm back now."
Yet, Worf did that very thing on TNG..........
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
Have we ever seen a science ship run well and doing good? How many science ships have been lost, abandoned, destroyed, in all the treks. Seemed like every other week TNG was running into an abandoned science vessel, destroyed science vessel, or disappeared science vessel. These ships are tiny with little resources except scanners and quite vulnerable.
This is a great point. So much precedence. Those science vessels didn't get their own series. They were just a blip in TNG. Lucero was just a blip in a Short Trek. Totally works.
Except that now the Short Treks are being presented as parallels to a current series centered on a science vessel. Just saying. Of course that science vessel spent most of the first season deeply embroiled in the Klingon War. It's almost like just watching scientists pour colored fluids into different beakers week after week would not make engrossing TV...........
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
Scaredy Riker who pursues women but is afraid of one that pursues him.
In fairness, she was inappropriately young for him.
That didn’t stop him from hitting on Data’s daughter Lal. They don’t ever give her an age that I saw and she did seem to have a job with Dr. Crusher. She did kidnap him which probably didn’t help.
Scaredy Riker who pursues women but is afraid of one that pursues him.
In fairness, she was inappropriately young for him.
That didn’t stop him from hitting on Data’s daughter Lal. They don’t ever give her an age that I saw and she did seem to have a job with Dr. Crusher. She did kidnap him which probably didn’t help.
Maybe the incident with Lal is why he started taking notice of women's ages. And yeah, kidnapping tends to put the kibosh on romance. Although, I imagine if she showed up today and still had any interest, he'd be like, "Remember the gazebo?" and "You were stunning then and you're stunning now" and "But you gotta make it look like an abduction again or I'm in trouble."
So we can all assume that Captain Lucero is gonna have the highest CMD base of any 4 star ever right?
And here I was thinking it would be MED for her ability to quickly identify his issues and give him the therapy he so desperately needed.
DB's reasoning:
You are so right!!! Hey let's give her an over 1200 base cmd cause, those A plus grade command skills. 1000 med cause she handled that wacko better than Deanna Troi. And 900 eng because she was a science officer. Traits of Veteran, Jurry Rigger, Duelist, Federation, Starfleet, Astrophysicist, Physician (cause any character with MED has to have that trait), Pilot (we took forever to give it to Cadet Wesley so let's give it to her), Resourceful, and Innovative.
Playerbase: Powercreeped, and highly inaccurate stats but she is in several collections and we can ff her so... \_(°\°)_/
I find it odd that when Burnham disobeyed orders everyone blamed her. But when Edward disobeys orders almost everyone is blaming his captain not him. He disobeyed orders. He caused the problem.
I find it odd that when Burnham disobeyed orders everyone blamed her. But when Edward disobeys orders almost everyone is blaming his captain not him. He disobeyed orders. He caused the problem.
Exactly. Burnham did what she did to try and avoid a deadly war. And she got the harshest sentence she possibly could. {There is only one capital offense in 23rd century 🌟 fleet.}
Edward {regardless of medical condition that might possibly exist} endangered not only his ship, but an entire world. Lucero's biggest fault was in not slapping him down hard enough. He should have been restricted to quarters and never gotten near another tribble as long as he lived.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
She was not particularly diplomatic about how she handled the issue, but she was at the start of her first command. She obviously isn't the best commander, but let us consider a few things. 1 She had an expectation of how her people should have behaved. Presumably Edward knew how the hierarchy was supposed to work. 2 Underlings have a proper manner and procedure for redress if they feel they are not being dealt with fairly. Edward should never have been in his position without knowing proper procedures. 3 Any new leader will come in and arrange things to how they feel is best. Have you ever had a new boss who didn't change things they thought were not best? 4 We see no evidence that any other crew had any major issues with her, but we can see some minor evidence that other changes were made, too. Presumably other crew were affected.
Now let us think of Captain Jellico. He was a very experienced officer when he came to the Enterprise for a change of command. Evidence indicates that it was a temporary change, but of an indeterminate length. He did everything Lucero did, but with even less tact. I remember the discussions here about him. He gets mixed reviews. But if you were one to justify him and are critical of her: ask yourself what the difference is.
I've seen enough clips of this short (and read both positive and negative reviews and also read a synopsis) to think that while other problems undoubtedly abound, to me the biggest problem is with the writing, followed closely by casting. The entire premise of that short only works if you have not one but multiple Starfleet officers who have no idea how Starfleet procedures and protocols work. A Lieutenant who has no understanding of proper experimental procedures or of the chain of command is unacceptable for a graduate of the Academy, and for a Captain to completely mishandle a pretty simple situation that poorly is also unacceptable for not only a graduate of Starfleet Academy, but somebody who has apparently done enough to warrant a command position. That to me is just horrible writing; they had a premise they wanted to do and shoehorned it into a situation where the people were wearing Starfleet costumes rather than start with the ideals of Starfleet and work forward from there. I'll throw in casting also because at no point does Captain Lucero give a convincing performance as a commanding officer, if I was on that ship I'd request a transfer immediately.
I find it odd that when Burnham disobeyed orders everyone blamed her. But when Edward disobeys orders almost everyone is blaming his captain not him. He disobeyed orders. He caused the problem.
Lorca, Pike, and Saru let Burnham get away with far too much, there is no doubt there. Then again, Lorca had his own plans that didn’t really coincide with Starfleet’s ideals and Saru was more familiar with Burnham than anyone on Discovery...Pike is the odd one out by not having any real excuse for why he didn’t expect more discipline on his ship.
Comments
Yep. However subsequent writing staffs have blurred the lines on this issue.
"Starfleet is not a military organization, its purpose is exploration" - Captain Picard in Peak Performance
They certainly get embroiled in a lot of war though...
Starfleet isn’t military, but they observe traditional military hierarchy, structure, and tradition. Many of the people responsible for TOS and TNG were military and tried to make sure the characters acted like the professionals they were supposed to be.
This is a great point. So much precedence. Those science vessels didn't get their own series. They were just a blip in TNG. Lucero was just a blip in a Short Trek. Totally works.
Yeah. Except I can't imagine a Navy SEAL or a Green Beret saying "I'm resigning to go fight a civil war in my Homeland." And then a few weeks later "Well, war is over. I'm back now."
Yet, Worf did that very thing on TNG..........
Except that now the Short Treks are being presented as parallels to a current series centered on a science vessel. Just saying. Of course that science vessel spent most of the first season deeply embroiled in the Klingon War. It's almost like just watching scientists pour colored fluids into different beakers week after week would not make engrossing TV...........
Could Belle Q also be Amanda Rogers from the scene in "True Q" where she absconds with Commander Riker?
No, she'd be "Belle Amanda". Though since you brought it up, I we totally need Belle Amanda.
"Involuntarily Dapper Daddy Riker".
Abraham Riker
Scaredy Riker who pursues women but is afraid of one that pursues him.
In fairness, she was inappropriately young for him.
That didn’t stop him from hitting on Data’s daughter Lal. They don’t ever give her an age that I saw and she did seem to have a job with Dr. Crusher. She did kidnap him which probably didn’t help.
Maybe the incident with Lal is why he started taking notice of women's ages. And yeah, kidnapping tends to put the kibosh on romance. Although, I imagine if she showed up today and still had any interest, he'd be like, "Remember the gazebo?" and "You were stunning then and you're stunning now" and "But you gotta make it look like an abduction again or I'm in trouble."
Since this week includes Convergence Day, it would make sense for DB to have a Q tie-in.
1250+ Command
1200+ Diplomacy
800+ Medical
Plus a +9 attack with 500% dmg deal no trigger and a 2 second initialize.
And here I was thinking it would be MED for her ability to quickly identify his issues and give him the therapy he so desperately needed.
DB's reasoning:
You are so right!!! Hey let's give her an over 1200 base cmd cause, those A plus grade command skills. 1000 med cause she handled that wacko better than Deanna Troi. And 900 eng because she was a science officer. Traits of Veteran, Jurry Rigger, Duelist, Federation, Starfleet, Astrophysicist, Physician (cause any character with MED has to have that trait), Pilot (we took forever to give it to Cadet Wesley so let's give it to her), Resourceful, and Innovative.
Playerbase: Powercreeped, and highly inaccurate stats but she is in several collections and we can ff her so... \_(°\°)_/
Sarcasm aside, if any recipe calls for MED, here’s the complete list of Survivalists with that skill:
5* Stranded Quark
5* Sulan
5* Tactical Officer Neelix
4* Vedek Bareil Antos
🖖
Exactly. Burnham did what she did to try and avoid a deadly war. And she got the harshest sentence she possibly could. {There is only one capital offense in 23rd century 🌟 fleet.}
Edward {regardless of medical condition that might possibly exist} endangered not only his ship, but an entire world. Lucero's biggest fault was in not slapping him down hard enough. He should have been restricted to quarters and never gotten near another tribble as long as he lived.
Now let us think of Captain Jellico. He was a very experienced officer when he came to the Enterprise for a change of command. Evidence indicates that it was a temporary change, but of an indeterminate length. He did everything Lucero did, but with even less tact. I remember the discussions here about him. He gets mixed reviews. But if you were one to justify him and are critical of her: ask yourself what the difference is.
Just my point zero two dollars' worth.
Lorca, Pike, and Saru let Burnham get away with far too much, there is no doubt there. Then again, Lorca had his own plans that didn’t really coincide with Starfleet’s ideals and Saru was more familiar with Burnham than anyone on Discovery...Pike is the odd one out by not having any real excuse for why he didn’t expect more discipline on his ship.