So a 3* Worf after all! Now there are only two major 3* remaining, which are Picard and Data. Also ... who is "Belle Q"? A variant of "Miss Q"? Edit: Is this confirmed? Another reason why I should cite my "Miss Q" to give her the last star for immortality next week when the 4* citation is out.
"Everything about the Jem'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris (ST-DS9 Episode 2x26 "The Jem'Hadar")
These are the first scenes I've seen of any of the Trek shorts. Can't think of a time I've ever been at such a loss for words. Truly awful, awful stuff. Just...
So a 3* Worf after all! Now there are only two major 3* remaining, which are Picard and Data. Also ... who is "Belle Q"? A variant of "Miss Q"? Edit: Is this confirmed? Another reason why I should cite my "Miss Q" to give her the last star for immortality next week when the 4* citation is out.
There was a 3 🌟 Picard among the Picards in the Leaked Ten. Most of the Leaked Ten have been added, except the Picards and the Naussicaan........
I'm thinking there might be a Picard Event or even Mega Event when the show starts, or right before. With most/all the Leaked Ten Picards.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
These are the first scenes I've seen of any of the Trek shorts. Can't think of a time I've ever been at such a loss for words. Truly awful, awful stuff. Just...
ever wondered if the 23rd century still has millennials? i wonder what skills they'll give her...starfleet, federation, smug?
These are the first scenes I've seen of any of the Trek shorts. Can't think of a time I've ever been at such a loss for words. Truly awful, awful stuff. Just...
ever wondered if the 23rd century still has millennials? i wonder what skills they'll give her...starfleet, federation, smug?
I can't decide if the biggest disappointment was that only two of the first four were on the Disco Season Two DVD, or that you have to hunt for those two........
The Saru one & the Po one were the only ones on the DVD set.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
I'm surprised that people think Lucero was portrayed as a strong, competent female captain. The thing that bothered me most about this episode was her incompetence as a commanding officer; I didn't want to think that Starfleet, and especially Pike, could promote someone so ill-suited to command to the role of starship captain.
Presumably Lucero was a good science officer under Pike, but she was a terrible captain by any measure. Per Kirk, "As Captain ...I am responsible for the conduct of the crew under my command." Lucero lost her first (and I hope only) command within a few weeks (if even that) because she was completely unable to manage her crew. We don't really know what happened to her at the end of that hearing/court martial, but I would be shocked if she was given a second command. Demotion and reassignment as a science officer to another ship would have been the most fortunate possible outcome for her. Starfleet would have been justified to find her guilty of negligence and dishonorably discharged her.
Michael Burnham is portrayed generally as the amazingly gifted, but constantly distraught, near-super hero. Lucero wasn't. She failed. Starfleet lost a starship, failed to save a starving planet, and loosed a plague (genetically altered tribbles) on the galaxy through her incompetence. I actually think it's a sign of maturing thinking by the writers that a Latina captain is shown to be so fallible -- very un-"woke". Whether one is good or bad at one's job is not due to race or gender.
I also think this is one of the goals CBS has for Star Trek Shorts -- to show aspects of the Star Trek universe that don't conform to the usual narrative: the screw-up Starfleet personnel, the stowaways, the successful villains, the singing first officers, etc.
Some of the shorts have been more successful than others.
One of my biggest problems with Discovery is that it’s obvious none of the writers have been in the military, and are unwilling to hire and listen to advisors who have.
For those of us who have been in the military, the problems are extreme, and non-ignorable. The characters routinely flout the chain of command, and military customs and courtesies. Actions that should merit court martials, confinement, or dismissal from the service are punished by stern talking-tos or worse, are completely ignored.
And when we bring up these issues, we’re accused of being intolerant, which is true, but not in the sense that people are using it.
The military isn’t a warm, cuddly place where people join hands and sing kumbaya. There’s rules and regulations, and you follow them, or you can get out (or be kicked out.)
Heck, let’s get right to one of the most obvious issues: Tilly doesn’t meet height/weight requirements. I don’t say this because I’m mean and don’t like chubby people. I’m saying this because there are clear and obvious reasons that while aboard a military vessel, a military member needs to meet these requirements.
Instead, the writers have written the cast of Discovery like they’re members of a start-up. Just no.
Now, you know the Great Bird himself said repeatedly that 🌟 fleet is NOT military. They are just explorers and scientists. Like when Libya attacked two Navy Jets, and the US sent Jacques Cousteau to bomb their bases......
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
IMO, Discovery has substandard writing because:
It relies far too much on “magic” (I.e. the spore drive)
The main character seems to be the solution to almost every problem
The writers have an obsession with nostalgia (the visit to Talos IV was unnecessary for example)
The show feels a bit too “American” at times. The way people act doesn’t seem to reflect how people would act in the real world outside of American TV shows.
The series is suffering from “small world” syndrome. Another symptom of the nostalgia binge the writers are on - Spoke, Pike, Mudd,
The Enterprise, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Trill we’ve seen in the S3 trailers turns out to be Dax.
Star Trek has always relied on magic - from the transporter and warp drive in TOS to technobabble. Sylvia and Korob, magic plot barriers around the galaxy, aliens that ignore physics, ESP...
Trek is not hard sci-fi, it's a katra away from Star Wars' midiclorians if we're honest. Spock even did his own version of "these are not the droids..." in more than one TOS ep.
Small world syndrome? Like the FO being the councillors ex? The ambassador being the FO's dad? Even the conceit - that these amazing things happen to one crew out of the thousands out there - is part of it. DS9 escapes most of that because it was a station, and so was a destination, but the rest of Trek?
These have been part of Trek for ages, and yes, they're valid criticisms - bit not just of DISCO.
DISCO, like every other Trek series, is a product of its time and whilst it has issues, the amount of censure it gets is unfair as much of the arguments can be used against the other series too. But this happens with every new Trek series, flaws of the past are conveniently forgotten.
It has to balance the fanservice and conservatism of the older fans, hankering after "their" Trek viewed through rose-tinted glasses, whist attracting new fans. It's in an era where the social messages TOS emitted are today thrown under the "virtue signalling" bus.
People are overthinking these short treks. They are just meant to be fun snippets that are 15 min or less and add one fact to the trek universe or tie in to an upcoming trek episode. The Trouble with Edward short trek was meant to be a funny short trek and it was funny. Why would anyone take a tribble episode so seriously? None of the others were. Original Trouble with Tribbles was so funny when the tribbles kept falling out of the cabinet onto Kirk’s head.
these two videos sum up my feelings on Lucero and that short trek, the first one most of all.
You've actually made it that I want to watch that Short Trek ... looks like an episode from The Office (have only seen the BBC series) I'm half expecting them to give a weird look to the camera the way Tim does when Gareth goes off on some jibe about hunting knives etc.
She reminds me of David Brent (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAnIOCIBFR4 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f6qRwp8YwE) ... or his boss, wow did she ever think he was a right idiot.
Actually ... now I want to go watch The Office again (and The Detectorists while I'm at it) ... Star Trek will have to wait ...
The real question in that case is how Star Fleet “Peter Principled” him into such a job
That, we can agree on. He must have been doing something special for an Admiral somewhere
What I'm finding at the moment, on Twitter and Reddit, is that no-one seems to be able to say anything negative about Discovery or its Short Treks without someone else piping up and saying that the negativity is due to racism/sexism/homophobia/etc... Its irritating because I'm a Trekkie - I understand the concept of IDIC.
I simply don't like Discovery because I feel the writing is substandard!
The problem is that so much of the criticism is due to or wrapped up in racism/sexism/homophobia couched as general dislike of the series that it is very hard to parse out and have a good discussion about the pros and cons of the series. I think if you keep watching Discovery or give it another chance you will enjoy it. It is a fun show with new trek storylines, interesting new characters, and amazing special effects. I know I hated Discovery the first two episodes but kept watching and now I love it. The big problem Discovery had was that the first two episodes were setup that were a bit forced to get the show where it needed to be and that CBS only showed the first episode for free when the show doesn’t get really good until episode 3.
Star Trek is one of the most progressive audiences out there. We generally deserve the benefit of the doubt. [...] Those of us still here have good intentions.
I'd like to agree with you on this, but I'm afraid I've spent too much time reading conversations in UC to still believe these things
That being said, I agree that people have lots of different reasons to dislike DSC and it makes no sense to assume that they're all simply prejudiced.
As for the event, I can't find any reference to Belle Q, but if it's really a 5* version of the female Q from The Q and the Grey that would be great
The real question in that case is how Star Fleet “Peter Principled” him into such a job
That, we can agree on. He must have been doing something special for an Admiral somewhere
What I'm finding at the moment, on Twitter and Reddit, is that no-one seems to be able to say anything negative about Discovery or its Short Treks without someone else piping up and saying that the negativity is due to racism/sexism/homophobia/etc... Its irritating because I'm a Trekkie - I understand the concept of IDIC.
I simply don't like Discovery because I feel the writing is substandard!
The problem is that so much of the criticism is due to or wrapped up in racism/sexism/homophobia couched as general dislike of the series that it is very hard to parse out and have a good discussion about the pros and cons of the series. I think if you keep watching Discovery or give it another chance you will enjoy it. It is a fun show with new trek storylines, interesting new characters, and amazing special effects. I know I hated Discovery the first two episodes but kept watching and now I love it. The big problem Discovery had was that the first two episodes were setup that were a bit forced to get the show where it needed to be and that CBS only showed the first episode for free when the show doesn’t get really good until episode 3.
Star Trek is one of the most progressive audiences out there. We generally deserve the benefit of the doubt. [...] Those of us still here have good intentions.
I'd like to agree with you on this, but I'm afraid I've spent too much time reading conversations in UC to still believe these things
That being said, I agree that people have lots of different reasons to dislike DSC and it makes no sense to assume that they're all simply prejudiced.
As for the event, I can't find any reference to Belle Q, but if it's really a 5* version of the female Q from The Q and the Grey that would be great
She is dressed like a Southron Belle. I think the only "spoiler" we are going to get is THERE IS A NEW 3 🌟!!!!!
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
I made an edit: the ranked Reward 5*: will be Belle Q and not Tourist Worf.
Tourist Worf will be a new 3* however.
My apologies!
I wondered what the hell everyone was talking about! 😂
"Lucero" - could I make the point that no one outside of the US has been able to watch the season 2 Short Treks yet, so getting these cards is really annoying - we don't know who they are and likely don't want to be spoilered. It happened last year with the Leland card.
Belle Q: No interest.
Commander Dolim: Ugh. Another existing 4* from the pile of crew who've already featured in an event that does me no good.
Tourist Worf: I HOPE THRESHOLD & OUT IS ENOUGH FOR A 3/3.
The real question in that case is how Star Fleet “Peter Principled” him into such a job
That, we can agree on. He must have been doing something special for an Admiral somewhere
What I'm finding at the moment, on Twitter and Reddit, is that no-one seems to be able to say anything negative about Discovery or its Short Treks without someone else piping up and saying that the negativity is due to racism/sexism/homophobia/etc... Its irritating because I'm a Trekkie - I understand the concept of IDIC.
I simply don't like Discovery because I feel the writing is substandard!
The problem is that so much of the criticism is due to or wrapped up in racism/sexism/homophobia couched as general dislike of the series that it is very hard to parse out and have a good discussion about the pros and cons of the series. I think if you keep watching Discovery or give it another chance you will enjoy it. It is a fun show with new trek storylines, interesting new characters, and amazing special effects. I know I hated Discovery the first two episodes but kept watching and now I love it. The big problem Discovery had was that the first two episodes were setup that were a bit forced to get the show where it needed to be and that CBS only showed the first episode for free when the show doesn’t get really good until episode 3.
Star Trek is one of the most progressive audiences out there. We generally deserve the benefit of the doubt. [...] Those of us still here have good intentions.
I'd like to agree with you on this, but I'm afraid I've spent too much time reading conversations in UC to still believe these things
That being said, I agree that people have lots of different reasons to dislike DSC and it makes no sense to assume that they're all simply prejudiced.
As for the event, I can't find any reference to Belle Q, but if it's really a 5* version of the female Q from The Q and the Grey that would be great
Also, this is totally legit. Thank you for not dismissing the opinions of others before they are even articulated. I really try to forget that UC exists.
If all you watch is the toxic Disco hate channels then you will hate it. I used to watch them until I realized they do nothing but Bash Disco for clicks. They'd bash Disco if it was good or bad. So much trash on YouTube. That Cullen guy is an alt-right hatemonger. He can't stand women or gay people in charge. That being said.. If you don't like it you don't like it. That's fine. Don't watch it.
My Gripe here is that its the same old event types over and over. Galaxy is lame. Would love a Rosa Salazar Avi though.
What I have found is that whenever someone complains about something so large as an entire series with something so general as “substandard writing“ (Particulalarly with DSC/DS9) in general if you ask him define that term you start hitting on all of those things you just mentioned. For example if we agree that she did shut Edward down, and shouldn’t have expected him to be a psychopath, I no longer see what she did wrong
I’ll define it here for you then.
IMO, Discovery has substandard writing because:
It relies far too much on “magic” (I.e. the spore drive)
The main character seems to be the solution to almost every problem
The writers have an obsession with nostalgia (the visit to Talos IV was unnecessary for example)
The show feels a bit too “American” at times. The way people act doesn’t seem to reflect how people would act in the real world outside of American TV shows.
The series is suffering from “small world” syndrome. Another symptom of the nostalgia binge the writers are on - Spoke, Pike, Mudd,
The Enterprise, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Trill we’ve seen in the S3 trailers turns out to be Dax.
EDIT: to bring my accidental thread derailment back on track, the biggest frustration for me - as it pertains to this event - is not having access to the Star Trek shorts. They aren't currently on Netflix here in Canada, and I haven't been able to find another way to view them (S1 or S2). Unfortunately, that makes the new 4* irrelevant to me, but I'll be happy to add her to my freezer.
FWIW, they're available in the same place that Disco and soon Picard are available: to stream on Crave TV and watch live and via streaming on CTV Sci Fi (which...can we talk about how unnecessary this name change was 🤮).
Not that it matters, but I didn't care for "The Trouble with Edward", either.
I know we're meant to see Edward Larkin as an irredeemable, petty jerk, but I feel he was almost certainly on the autism spectrum. I kept internally yelling at Lucero, "You gotta be patient with a person like him! He doesn't understand social cues!" Captain Lucero showed no patience or interest in Edward from the beginning, dismissing him out of hand and making no effort whatsoever to reach him. It was a far cry from Captain Picard ordering Geordi La Forge to find a way to bring Reg Barclay into the fold.
Arbitrarily reassigning a biology specialist to climatology was absurd. This isn't on Lucero, but rather on the writer, Graham Wagner. Yeah, I get it; dude wants us to get away from eating meat and work on climate change. Fine, whatever. But all this showed was a gross ignorance of science. It's hard to fathom that the franchise that at one time consulted Isaac Asimov would treat scientific specialties as interchangeable. I'm not a scientist, but I have respect for the work that goes into becoming one. I don't need Trek to explain its fake science in exacting detail, but I do ask that cursory regard for real science be shown some deference.
Also, while I'm fairly flexible about retconning, I just did not see any value whatsoever in making Edward responsible for tribble breeding and metabolism rates. Or even any logistics. At most, we'll say the ship went down and the tribbles aboard somehow got out and overran that planet. That's a staggering amount of tribbles, I'll grant, but there's no obvious explanation how they would get off planet and become the default tribbles of the galaxy. I think this one irked me so much because there was simply no reason to monkey with tribble continuity to tell a tribble story.
Now, had they made it a Klingon scientist responsible for tribbles, that would have been something!
All that said, I did find Captain Lucero interesting and would gladly like to see her again. But her 4* card better not have DIP as a skill.
Star Trek has always relied on magic - from the transporter and warp drive in TOS to technobabble. Sylvia and Korob, magic plot barriers around the galaxy, aliens that ignore physics, ESP...
Trek is not hard sci-fi, it's a katra away from Star Wars' midiclorians if we're honest. Spock even did his own version of "these are not the droids..." in more than one TOS ep.
Trek always presents fantastical stuff as if its science and is generally forward looking. Star Wars makes almost no attempt at science and wallows in nostalgia.
ST engages the part of my brain that wants a Commie utopia where everything is sunshine and rainbows.
SW engages the part of my brain that wants to be a wizard, travel back in time and punch nazis in the face.
Oh god why did DB have to remind me of that awful Short Trek?
Yeah, I found it painfully unfunny. (Benjamin can be good, but he was doing the exact same character he always does, and I thought the writing and direction was abysmal.) But more than that, it was painfully un-Trek-like. I enjoy Disco and most of the other Short Treks, but that one was a stinker, through and through. (Adding an obligatory "in my opinion".)
It was so obvious they were trying to be like The Orville
Comments
probably Female Q from The Q and the Grey
Second Star to the Right - Join Today!
That makes sense.
Also.....
Excellent job getting the discussion back on the Event. I wish one Event thread one time could remain about the Event.
The people who hate Disco hate Disco. We get it by now. Don't like Disco? Don't compete for the new 4 🌟
These are the first scenes I've seen of any of the Trek shorts. Can't think of a time I've ever been at such a loss for words. Truly awful, awful stuff. Just...
Thanks Barkley!
I tried so hard, but I just can’t help myself when someone implies that people who do t like the show are bigots. I’ll try harder next time. 😉
There was a 3 🌟 Picard among the Picards in the Leaked Ten. Most of the Leaked Ten have been added, except the Picards and the Naussicaan........
I'm thinking there might be a Picard Event or even Mega Event when the show starts, or right before. With most/all the Leaked Ten Picards.
ever wondered if the 23rd century still has millennials? i wonder what skills they'll give her...starfleet, federation, smug?
Also either pregnant or mother, I suppose.
I hope to see the Season Two Short Treks soon.
I can't decide if the biggest disappointment was that only two of the first four were on the Disco Season Two DVD, or that you have to hunt for those two........
The Saru one & the Po one were the only ones on the DVD set.
I'm surprised that people think Lucero was portrayed as a strong, competent female captain. The thing that bothered me most about this episode was her incompetence as a commanding officer; I didn't want to think that Starfleet, and especially Pike, could promote someone so ill-suited to command to the role of starship captain.
Presumably Lucero was a good science officer under Pike, but she was a terrible captain by any measure. Per Kirk, "As Captain ...I am responsible for the conduct of the crew under my command." Lucero lost her first (and I hope only) command within a few weeks (if even that) because she was completely unable to manage her crew. We don't really know what happened to her at the end of that hearing/court martial, but I would be shocked if she was given a second command. Demotion and reassignment as a science officer to another ship would have been the most fortunate possible outcome for her. Starfleet would have been justified to find her guilty of negligence and dishonorably discharged her.
Michael Burnham is portrayed generally as the amazingly gifted, but constantly distraught, near-super hero. Lucero wasn't. She failed. Starfleet lost a starship, failed to save a starving planet, and loosed a plague (genetically altered tribbles) on the galaxy through her incompetence. I actually think it's a sign of maturing thinking by the writers that a Latina captain is shown to be so fallible -- very un-"woke". Whether one is good or bad at one's job is not due to race or gender.
I also think this is one of the goals CBS has for Star Trek Shorts -- to show aspects of the Star Trek universe that don't conform to the usual narrative: the screw-up Starfleet personnel, the stowaways, the successful villains, the singing first officers, etc.
Some of the shorts have been more successful than others.
Captain Level: 95
VIP Level: 12
Unique Crew Immortalized: 525
Collections Completed: Vulcan, Ferengi, Borg, Romulan, Cardassian, Uncommon, Rare, Veteran, Common, Engineered, Physician, Innovator, Inspiring, Diplomat, Jury Rigger, Gauntlet Legends
Now, you know the Great Bird himself said repeatedly that 🌟 fleet is NOT military. They are just explorers and scientists. Like when Libya attacked two Navy Jets, and the US sent Jacques Cousteau to bomb their bases......
Star Trek has always relied on magic - from the transporter and warp drive in TOS to technobabble. Sylvia and Korob, magic plot barriers around the galaxy, aliens that ignore physics, ESP...
Trek is not hard sci-fi, it's a katra away from Star Wars' midiclorians if we're honest. Spock even did his own version of "these are not the droids..." in more than one TOS ep.
Small world syndrome? Like the FO being the councillors ex? The ambassador being the FO's dad? Even the conceit - that these amazing things happen to one crew out of the thousands out there - is part of it. DS9 escapes most of that because it was a station, and so was a destination, but the rest of Trek?
These have been part of Trek for ages, and yes, they're valid criticisms - bit not just of DISCO.
DISCO, like every other Trek series, is a product of its time and whilst it has issues, the amount of censure it gets is unfair as much of the arguments can be used against the other series too. But this happens with every new Trek series, flaws of the past are conveniently forgotten.
It has to balance the fanservice and conservatism of the older fans, hankering after "their" Trek viewed through rose-tinted glasses, whist attracting new fans. It's in an era where the social messages TOS emitted are today thrown under the "virtue signalling" bus.
The DS9 one had a lot of humor as well.
I'm out.
No you get back in here and listen to my opinion!
You've actually made it that I want to watch that Short Trek ... looks like an episode from The Office (have only seen the BBC series) I'm half expecting them to give a weird look to the camera the way Tim does when Gareth goes off on some jibe about hunting knives etc.
She reminds me of David Brent (
Actually ... now I want to go watch The Office again (and The Detectorists while I'm at it) ... Star Trek will have to wait ...
I'd like to agree with you on this, but I'm afraid I've spent too much time reading conversations in UC to still believe these things
That being said, I agree that people have lots of different reasons to dislike DSC and it makes no sense to assume that they're all simply prejudiced.
As for the event, I can't find any reference to Belle Q, but if it's really a 5* version of the female Q from The Q and the Grey that would be great
She is dressed like a Southron Belle. I think the only "spoiler" we are going to get is THERE IS A NEW 3 🌟!!!!!
I wondered what the hell everyone was talking about! 😂
"Lucero" - could I make the point that no one outside of the US has been able to watch the season 2 Short Treks yet, so getting these cards is really annoying - we don't know who they are and likely don't want to be spoilered. It happened last year with the Leland card.
Commander Dolim: Ugh. Another existing 4* from the pile of crew who've already featured in an event that does me no good.
Tourist Worf: I HOPE THRESHOLD & OUT IS ENOUGH FOR A 3/3.
Ok, I'm back. What's this "opinion" of yours?
Also, this is totally legit. Thank you for not dismissing the opinions of others before they are even articulated. I really try to forget that UC exists.
My Gripe here is that its the same old event types over and over. Galaxy is lame. Would love a Rosa Salazar Avi though.
Arbitrarily reassigning a biology specialist to climatology was absurd. This isn't on Lucero, but rather on the writer, Graham Wagner. Yeah, I get it; dude wants us to get away from eating meat and work on climate change. Fine, whatever. But all this showed was a gross ignorance of science. It's hard to fathom that the franchise that at one time consulted Isaac Asimov would treat scientific specialties as interchangeable. I'm not a scientist, but I have respect for the work that goes into becoming one. I don't need Trek to explain its fake science in exacting detail, but I do ask that cursory regard for real science be shown some deference.
Also, while I'm fairly flexible about retconning, I just did not see any value whatsoever in making Edward responsible for tribble breeding and metabolism rates. Or even any logistics. At most, we'll say the ship went down and the tribbles aboard somehow got out and overran that planet. That's a staggering amount of tribbles, I'll grant, but there's no obvious explanation how they would get off planet and become the default tribbles of the galaxy. I think this one irked me so much because there was simply no reason to monkey with tribble continuity to tell a tribble story.
Now, had they made it a Klingon scientist responsible for tribbles, that would have been something!
All that said, I did find Captain Lucero interesting and would gladly like to see her again. But her 4* card better not have DIP as a skill.
Trek always presents fantastical stuff as if its science and is generally forward looking. Star Wars makes almost no attempt at science and wallows in nostalgia.
ST engages the part of my brain that wants a Commie utopia where everything is sunshine and rainbows.
SW engages the part of my brain that wants to be a wizard, travel back in time and punch nazis in the face.
I'm fine with both existing in my head.
It was so obvious they were trying to be like The Orville