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Key information about the event: Trouble in Paradise - 01/16 - Correction

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  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    No doubt a more experienced Captain would have picked up on the danger signs. Her first command, she missed his attitude indicated problems bigger than she picked up on.

    ========================

    Didn't something {24 Event countdown or Event is live} say something about she is there to prevent the assassination of an admiral?

    He went full Richard on her. Be funny if she is there to save him.



    That's why you never go full Richard.........
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    Unless I have some lucrative Voyages over the next few days, this might be the first event since they added revival tokens that I don't at least go that far with thresholds. After reaching the last Captain Lucero at 130,000, I'm down to 9,106 chronitons and my stockpiles of several recipe items have been depleted. I'm actually in the position now of worrying I won't get a 3/3 Tourist Worf!
  • Anybody else think it was weird she said her instincts are usually always right.... Where were her instincts about maniac Tribbleman?
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did anyone get a screenshot of the pop up that said she is trying to prevent an admiral being assassinated?!?!?

    She's not on vacay........
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anybody else think it was weird she said her instincts are usually always right.... Where were her instincts about maniac Tribbleman?

    She told him no. She reassigned him to a different department. How much more did you expect her to do? Throw him in the brig because her instincts said he would disobey her?
  • AviTrek wrote: »
    Anybody else think it was weird she said her instincts are usually always right.... Where were her instincts about maniac Tribbleman?

    She told him no. She reassigned him to a different department. How much more did you expect her to do? Throw him in the brig because her instincts said he would disobey her?

    Mayyyyyybe keep a closer eye on him to make sure he followed her orders, seen he wasn't and then thrown him in the brig for insubordination at the least. If she had showed more gumption (for lack of a better word) like she seems to be trying in this events dialogue, things might've been better for her but maybe she learned her lesson and is being more assertive on Risa?
  • Prime LorcaPrime Lorca ✭✭✭✭✭
    The game that doesn't allow male characters to participate in a third of the dailies is sexist against women now?

    No, I didn’t say the game was, I said that storyline looked sexist to me as it is currently presented unless there is a twist to it. No captain that lost their ship, a crew member under their command, and started an interstellar incident that affected billions of people would then go on vacation to a paradise planet. It just would not happen. That captain would do everything they could to help the people affected and resolve the problem. Being unable to do or not allowed to do that they would be second guessing everything they had done and how they could have acted differently to prevent the disaster and think how they will act differently in the future. To suggest a female captain who had likely spent her whole life working towards the goal of being captain and lost her first command and was almost kicked out of Starfleet cares so little that she is on Risa immediately after the event is ridiculous. That her biggest concern seems to be not being seen by an Admiral speaks poorly of the storyline as well. But I will hold off on a final determination until the event and storyline concludes.

    Everything you said points to one individual. Not a whole gender. I have a feminist friend who gets mad when women are not proportionately represented as villians. Would the same not apply to incompetence? Not every woman can be a Janeway, Seven, Number One, Dax, etc. So you end up with Lucero. Not every man can be La Forge, Spock, Phlox, etc. So you end up with Edward. DB is probably doing fine. I don't know the ending of this event, but I'd bet my community rewards this week that Lucero redeems herself by the end. Some fool already dropped by to prove my point that the bigots around here are not subtle.

    @(HGH)Apollo , you're pretty sharp when it comes to this game. You provide great info and insight. That's why this pains me so much to see you get so distracted. If someone is a jerk, call it out. If something looks questionable, give them the benefit of the doubt. Keep an eye on it if you like and call it out if it becomes a pattern.
    Farewell 🖖
  • DavideBooksDavideBooks ✭✭✭✭✭
    I still think it is important to remember that this was her first command. She was sent to lead a group of scientists. They were presumably all experienced professionals, and the situation was not one where you would expect Starfleet to need an experienced commander. When you have professionals, you expect them to be professional. She obviously wasn't perfect in how she handled it, but she didn't simply let it go. I don't blame her. She should have handled reassigning him more diplomatically, but he didn't even try to do things the right way. He is obviously brilliant, but his previous commander should have never had him working alone. Moreover, his previous Commander should have made special effort to warn the incoming Captain that there was a brilliant but emotionally unstable department head who just needed a smile and nod now and then and a lot of oversight. In real life, i once had a coworker who was capable and willing, but emotionally incapable of working with others even though he thought he was. (His situation was understandable due to a head injury in the military. He was likable, but didn't get social cues.) I was in a leadership position over him. Everyone knew his situation and we made sure any new manager knew it. In the show, Edward's former captain should have known he was unstable and warned her. The previous captain was less competent than her. I think her next command would be better for the experience. Of course, we have to remember that it was supposed to be a humorous spoof episode.

    Back to the event: I think it important that whoever writes the event dialogue is not a professional writer. Pretty much every event had poor dialogue. Remember the Burnham event where she was made to be the Fun Sponge? I hadn't seen Discovery at that point and so I drew the conclusion from the event dialogue that Burnham was a totalitarian incapable of having fun and unwilling to let others have a good time. This is not the case.
  • robownagerobownage ✭✭✭✭✭
    Everyone knew his situation and we made sure any new manager knew it. In the show, Edward's former captain should have known he was unstable and warned her. The previous captain was less competent than her.

    Yes, yes and especially yes. She's not blameless, but the person there before her should absolutely have prepared her. Also, where was her first officer in all this? Lucero was set up to fail with Edward - but I doubt anyone would have predicted that outcome.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is my first comment. Because this is exactly my overall felling about "Discovery".
    Disrespect and insult to Gene Roddenberry legacy! The real Star Trek was always about to be a beter human!
    nb8sqsrre85q.jpg

    I love that if you think about it, IDIC is NOT a "Vulcan thing". It's a Great Bird of the Galaxy thing. It's how he treated people, and how we all should treat people. It's not our similarities that make us stronger, it is the combination of our differences.

    Accept everyone for who they are. We are all in this together.
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • Data1001 wrote: »
    And the way I see it, that's not so much misogyny as it is just bad writing, merely for the sake of trying to be funny (emphasis on "trying"). (As always, just my 2¢, YMMV.)
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Not sure if you were talking about the event or the short trek, but I sort of agree with you if you meant the event. I also think that it's supposed to be funny and lighthearted, like Automaton said, but it probably doesn't work very well because Forrest's character doesn't fit into that mood. If they had used the daydreaming Doctor (or Lwaxana going through menopause or Tilly on drugs) as the 5*, then there would have been plenty of possibilities for silly dialogue and the Risa setting would have made more sense. This way it only makes Lucero look ridiculous, which is probably enjoyable to those who hate her, but it's not exactly the same thing as creating a humorous event where everything is a bit silly (like the short trek is written, from what I understand).
    That being said, it's perfectly possible that whoever wrote this hates Lucero's character or wanted to make those happy who dislike her, but my guess is that the writer wasn't very experienced, didn't have much time to work on this or didn't really know what to do with what they were given (no idea how much they get to decide and/or at what point they get involved when an event is prepared).
    I also didn't like last week's plot and dialogue (I actually skipped most of it after reading the first few sentences). This one has some suspense at least and we can wonder whether or not there will be a plot twist, like someone mentioned :smile:

  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    And the way I see it, that's not so much misogyny as it is just bad writing, merely for the sake of trying to be funny (emphasis on "trying"). (As always, just my 2¢, YMMV.)
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    This one has some suspense at least and we can wonder whether or not there will be a plot twist, like someone mentioned :smile:

    Phase Two: Forrest is Worf's Daddy.
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • robownage wrote: »
    Yes, yes and especially yes. She's not blameless, but the person there before her should absolutely have prepared her. Also, where was her first officer in all this? Lucero was set up to fail with Edward - but I doubt anyone would have predicted that outcome.

    It's also worth mentioning that someone somewhere decided that she was ready to command. They would need to come under just as much scrutiny as Lucero herself; she clearly wasn't.
    She was sent to lead a group of scientists. They were presumably all experienced professionals, and the situation was not one where you would expect Starfleet to need an experienced commander. When you have professionals, you expect them to be professional.

    Anyone who's had any experience with management knows that this simply isn't the case. Just because people should behave like professionals, doesn't mean that they are going to do so. Everyone responds differently to criticism. Some people you can be quite frank with, knowing that they will listen and take on board what you're saying without taking it personally, others will sulk and throw tantrums even if you approach them delicately. A manager needs to know how to identify and handle those types of people. Sadly, Lucero just didn't have those tools in her box.

    In my opinion, after Lucero discovered that Edward had been sending messages back to Starfleet, she should at the very least made sure that his activities were monitored at all times.

    You would assume that a Starship Captain would have undergone some sort of management or HR training, and demonstrated their leadership qualities in other assignments before being given a command. It doesn't seem to be the case for poor Lucero, who was apparently "thrown in at the deep end".
  • Hopefully Starfleet learned a valuable lesson from the Lucero Incident (my term).

    By all appearances, Lucero was promoted straight from being the Enterprise's (chief?) science officer to command of her own ship. A normal career path should have included a stint as First Officer (probably of another science vessel) before giving her the center chair. That would have given her more experience dealing with different personality types and managing unexpected problems.
  • robownagerobownage ✭✭✭✭✭
    robownage wrote: »
    Yes, yes and especially yes. She's not blameless, but the person there before her should absolutely have prepared her. Also, where was her first officer in all this? Lucero was set up to fail with Edward - but I doubt anyone would have predicted that outcome.

    It's also worth mentioning that someone somewhere decided that she was ready to command. They would need to come under just as much scrutiny as Lucero herself; she clearly wasn't.
    She was sent to lead a group of scientists. They were presumably all experienced professionals, and the situation was not one where you would expect Starfleet to need an experienced commander. When you have professionals, you expect them to be professional.

    Anyone who's had any experience with management knows that this simply isn't the case. Just because people should behave like professionals, doesn't mean that they are going to do so. Everyone responds differently to criticism. Some people you can be quite frank with, knowing that they will listen and take on board what you're saying without taking it personally, others will sulk and throw tantrums even if you approach them delicately. A manager needs to know how to identify and handle those types of people. Sadly, Lucero just didn't have those tools in her box.

    In my opinion, after Lucero discovered that Edward had been sending messages back to Starfleet, she should at the very least made sure that his activities were monitored at all times.

    You would assume that a Starship Captain would have undergone some sort of management or HR training, and demonstrated their leadership qualities in other assignments before being given a command. It doesn't seem to be the case for poor Lucero, who was apparently "thrown in at the deep end".

    Hmm...not sure I agree on that one. If one of my employees went over my head, my solution would certainly not be to ensure they were monitored. I would probably review the situation with my boss, try to figure out where I went wrong and why my employee didn't feel comfortable coming to me, and then sit down with the employee with the goal of hashing out our problem - not all that different from what Lucero did, to be honest. Speaking as someone who has been managing millenials for the better part of the last decade, the "I'm going to monitor everything you do" approach is unlikely to make things better. She wasn't looking to get rid of the guy, but rather to work with him to improve.
  • Bylo BandBylo Band ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2020
    robownage wrote: »
    robownage wrote: »
    Yes, yes and especially yes. She's not blameless, but the person there before her should absolutely have prepared her. Also, where was her first officer in all this? Lucero was set up to fail with Edward - but I doubt anyone would have predicted that outcome.

    It's also worth mentioning that someone somewhere decided that she was ready to command. They would need to come under just as much scrutiny as Lucero herself; she clearly wasn't.
    She was sent to lead a group of scientists. They were presumably all experienced professionals, and the situation was not one where you would expect Starfleet to need an experienced commander. When you have professionals, you expect them to be professional.

    Anyone who's had any experience with management knows that this simply isn't the case. Just because people should behave like professionals, doesn't mean that they are going to do so. Everyone responds differently to criticism. Some people you can be quite frank with, knowing that they will listen and take on board what you're saying without taking it personally, others will sulk and throw tantrums even if you approach them delicately. A manager needs to know how to identify and handle those types of people. Sadly, Lucero just didn't have those tools in her box.

    In my opinion, after Lucero discovered that Edward had been sending messages back to Starfleet, she should at the very least made sure that his activities were monitored at all times.

    You would assume that a Starship Captain would have undergone some sort of management or HR training, and demonstrated their leadership qualities in other assignments before being given a command. It doesn't seem to be the case for poor Lucero, who was apparently "thrown in at the deep end".

    Hmm...not sure I agree on that one. If one of my employees went over my head, my solution would certainly not be to ensure they were monitored. I would probably review the situation with my boss, try to figure out where I went wrong and why my employee didn't feel comfortable coming to me, and then sit down with the employee with the goal of hashing out our problem - not all that different from what Lucero did, to be honest. Speaking as someone who has been managing millenials for the better part of the last decade, the "I'm going to monitor everything you do" approach is unlikely to make things better. She wasn't looking to get rid of the guy, but rather to work with him to improve.

    If a Starfleet captain took your advice and spent this much time worrying about every interaction with everyone under their command, the ship would never leave spacedock.

    DAX: Benjamin, that ensign you just talked to didn't seem happy with your decision...

    SISKO: Are you being serious right now Old Man? I've got a group of scheming dissidents on Bajor plotting a takeover the Provisional Government, a rogue Kai plotting to undermine my position of Emissary, a homicidal former head-of-state for Cardassia trying to kill all life in the alpha quadrant, and a soulless race of genetically manipulated super-soldiers waging war on everyone, you really think I care what some pouting ensign thinks?
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    that storyline looked sexist to me as it is currently presented unless there is a twist to it. No captain that lost their ship, a crew member under their command, and started an interstellar incident that affected billions of people would then go on vacation to a paradise planet. It just would not happen.

    I just assumed it was a mandatory leave, while the brass decided what they were going to do with her. But even if it wasn't, I guess I still don't see any sexism there. It could just as well have been a male captain who decided to go on a vacation to a paradise planet. The fact is, the way her character was written in that Short Trek, it could very well be the latter, because of the way she took the whole thing so casually. "Oh yeah, I lost my ship and left someone to die (while saving myself), but in my defense, you should've known that guy!" And the way I see it, that's not so much misogyny as it is just bad writing, merely for the sake of trying to be funny (emphasis on "trying"). (As always, just my 2¢, YMMV.)
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Didn't she seal off the corridor after Edward got et? Or drowned in Tribbles? However they killed him?
    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • WebberoniWebberoni ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    that storyline looked sexist to me as it is currently presented unless there is a twist to it. No captain that lost their ship, a crew member under their command, and started an interstellar incident that affected billions of people would then go on vacation to a paradise planet. It just would not happen.

    I just assumed it was a mandatory leave, while the brass decided what they were going to do with her. But even if it wasn't, I guess I still don't see any sexism there. It could just as well have been a male captain who decided to go on a vacation to a paradise planet. The fact is, the way her character was written in that Short Trek, it could very well be the latter, because of the way she took the whole thing so casually. "Oh yeah, I lost my ship and left someone to die (while saving myself), but in my defense, you should've known that guy!" And the way I see it, that's not so much misogyny as it is just bad writing, merely for the sake of trying to be funny (emphasis on "trying"). (As always, just my 2¢, YMMV.)
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Didn't she seal off the corridor after Edward got et? Or drowned in Tribbles? However they killed him?

    She waited as long as she could, then chose to save the rest of the crew by sealing the door to the escape pod. It reminded me of the Voyager Year-of-Hell episode, when the Doctor had to seal the hatch at the last second to save several crew members, even though it meant letting two others still in the corridor die.
  • robownagerobownage ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bylo Band wrote: »
    robownage wrote: »
    robownage wrote: »
    Yes, yes and especially yes. She's not blameless, but the person there before her should absolutely have prepared her. Also, where was her first officer in all this? Lucero was set up to fail with Edward - but I doubt anyone would have predicted that outcome.

    It's also worth mentioning that someone somewhere decided that she was ready to command. They would need to come under just as much scrutiny as Lucero herself; she clearly wasn't.
    She was sent to lead a group of scientists. They were presumably all experienced professionals, and the situation was not one where you would expect Starfleet to need an experienced commander. When you have professionals, you expect them to be professional.

    Anyone who's had any experience with management knows that this simply isn't the case. Just because people should behave like professionals, doesn't mean that they are going to do so. Everyone responds differently to criticism. Some people you can be quite frank with, knowing that they will listen and take on board what you're saying without taking it personally, others will sulk and throw tantrums even if you approach them delicately. A manager needs to know how to identify and handle those types of people. Sadly, Lucero just didn't have those tools in her box.

    In my opinion, after Lucero discovered that Edward had been sending messages back to Starfleet, she should at the very least made sure that his activities were monitored at all times.

    You would assume that a Starship Captain would have undergone some sort of management or HR training, and demonstrated their leadership qualities in other assignments before being given a command. It doesn't seem to be the case for poor Lucero, who was apparently "thrown in at the deep end".

    Hmm...not sure I agree on that one. If one of my employees went over my head, my solution would certainly not be to ensure they were monitored. I would probably review the situation with my boss, try to figure out where I went wrong and why my employee didn't feel comfortable coming to me, and then sit down with the employee with the goal of hashing out our problem - not all that different from what Lucero did, to be honest. Speaking as someone who has been managing millenials for the better part of the last decade, the "I'm going to monitor everything you do" approach is unlikely to make things better. She wasn't looking to get rid of the guy, but rather to work with him to improve.

    If a Starfleet captain took your advice and spent this much time worrying about every interaction with everyone under their command, the ship would never leave spacedock.

    It's all context - I sure as hell wouldn't take that approach every time, but I would in this particular case. You've got to be able to strike a balance between efficiency and employee engagement, otherwise you run the risk of being a Captain Jellico. You don't need your team to like you, but you need them to respect you and you need to be able to learn from your own mistakes because respect isn't given, it's earned.
  • It is disappointing that no one outside of the States can join in this conversation due to some suspect airing decisions by CBS. :(
  • It is disappointing that no one outside of the States can join in this conversation due to some suspect airing decisions by CBS. :(

    I'm from the UK. ;)
  • WebberoniWebberoni ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is disappointing that no one outside of the States can join in this conversation due to some suspect airing decisions by CBS. :(

    I discovered that the season 2 short treks are available to everybody in Canada, via CTV's Sci-Fi site. I haven't been able to track down the season 1 short treks, unfortunately.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bylo Band wrote: »
    If anything, it is harder for people IN the States to see this stuff, CBS makes us pay a monthly fee for stuff they let the rest of you rascals get for free :p

    So true - I haven’t seen a single one of the new ones, however many are out by now.
  • Zombie Squirrel Zombie Squirrel ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2020
    Bylo Band wrote: »
    If anything, it is harder for people IN the States to see this stuff, CBS makes us pay a monthly fee for stuff they let the rest of you rascals get for free :p

    ??? Discovery and Short Treks are on netflix(latests short treks still havn t been added yet) outside the US, and last time i checked netflix wasn t for free. ;)
    And Picard will air on amazon prime outside the US.

    So i am not sure where we get anything for free or easier than the US folks?
    It‘s quite the opposite, since we have to pay for 2 streaming services to watch Disco and Picard.
    •SSR Delta Flyers•
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