My hope is that as Picard reengages life that he'll also revive the Federation's conscience and become its moral compass again.
I would point to Sisko's observation that "It's easy to be a saint in Paradise" as the key to this storytelling. In TNG, Picard and his crew had the luxury of not having to stick around and live with the consequences of their preaching to a planet's leaders. It's richer to put Picard in a situation where he can't just be off to somewhere new a week later. It's certainly more persuasive to see those core values remain intact after being challenged than it is to just be told "This is how perfect people have become".
To the people who said I don't like the show for the same reason original series fans didn't like TNG...
NO. Absolutely not! This is WAY deeper than that. Star Trek TNG carried on the same principles of a world that had become a utopia, and an optimism for the future. As did every series made in its image. Star Trek was about what we could strive to be.
These people have followed JJ Abrams's lead and turned Star Trek into a dystopic nightmare. EVERYTHING that was once bright and positive has gone away. This is NOT STAR TREK.
EDITED>
Spoiler Alert. I mean literally like, today's episode, DO NOT click this if you aren't current!
Are you FREAKING kidding me with this terrible excuse for a show? They literally have to turn EVERYTHING into a dystopia! Now they've gone and killed Riker and Troi's first born son as well? No memory left intact on this train wreck of a piece of sh...
Trek, from conception, was always about morality plays and a mirror to social issues and a product of the era. It was sold as "Wagon Train to the stars" and never meant to have any consistency (you can thank the likes of DC Fontana for keeping things roughly aligned.)
It was only with TNG that we got the Utopian Rules, handed down by Roddenberry's "assistants" (aka, parasites), and promptly abandoned as soon as said "assistants" were booted off the Paramount lot after Roddenberry died, and even that was very much a product of its time.
There are flaws to STP, but it was designed to reflect the world we live in - increasingly nationalistic and parochial - which is the very DNA of Trek.
If you want to blame anyone for how STP has turned out, you'll need to go dig out all the politicians whose policies have caused a lot of voters to turn away from liberal economics.
Edit: To add, the writers obviously have a negative view of the way the world is going, which is why they maybe over egg the pudding.
Anyone feel like they are setting up Season Three of Disco through the Picard show? We know from the teaser trailer that Starfleet/Federation are gone 900 years in the future. Maybe the discord and conflict after Starfleet failing to help the Romulan Empire in a major crisis, after inroads had been made in "Nemesis", plus the whole basically "outlawing" a whole race {artificial lifeforms} is what starts the collapse..........
I hope not, the "rising from our mistakes" trope is played out, and it'd just be a better Andromeda.
I'd rather the collapse came from something positive - say, a significant chunk of the Federation evolved to post-physical, and there simply wasn't enough people left to keep it altogether. People tried their best, but the fact so many citizens from so many worlds had left meant collapse was inevitable, supply lines were unable to be kept up, infrastructure designed for billions couldn't be maintained by a population now in the thousands.
And so the cycle of civilisation begins anew, a past resurrected through the biases of the present.
That's got plenty of scope, not just for DISCO, but also for Short Treks.
"Star Trek is a formula. It's not my idea, it's not your idea, it's not Paramount's idea. It's Gene Roddenberry's idea of the 24th century, and it's very important for me to remember that. Not because I'm 'faithful to Gene's legacy,' as people love to write; it's because that's what Star Trek is. To change that is to not be doing Star Trek anymore."
Roddenberry's creation is a hopeful, idealistic, and arguably absurd view of the future: an era in which racism and poverty have been vanquished, and mankind combs the cosmos with a smile and a shoeshine. This vision is the genome that has defined Star Trek for three decades.
It's a DNA string with an infinite potential for variation - but an unwavering premise. (rick berman 1996 wired magazine)
picard is in NO way star trek
By that measure, neither is DS9.
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing. ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
As for crew... Pirate Picard is a must, a genuinely fun card that.
A couple of Sevens - Ranger Seven(SEC/SCI/ENG) and Murdering Seven(just SEC, like the single-skill McCoy we got, a shuttle powerhouse)
A Dahj and Soji fusion set - maybe with a twist, so we have a 4* Unawakened Dahj and Unawakened Soji, both two skills, and who fuse with a 4* Dream Data to make a 5* Awakened version of each one with a third SEC skill now added.
Bjayzel might make a good recurring legendary, or Oh, as they seem to like to use the villains in many megas.
"Star Trek is a formula. It's not my idea, it's not your idea, it's not Paramount's idea. It's Gene Roddenberry's idea of the 24th century, and it's very important for me to remember that. Not because I'm 'faithful to Gene's legacy,' as people love to write; it's because that's what Star Trek is. To change that is to not be doing Star Trek anymore."
Roddenberry's creation is a hopeful, idealistic, and arguably absurd view of the future: an era in which racism and poverty have been vanquished, and mankind combs the cosmos with a smile and a shoeshine. This vision is the genome that has defined Star Trek for three decades.
It's a DNA string with an infinite potential for variation - but an unwavering premise. (rick berman 1996 wired magazine)
picard is in NO way star trek
Sure it is. It's called Star Trek: Picard. See? Right there in the title. Easy to miss, I suppose.
"Star Trek is a formula. It's not my idea, it's not your idea, it's not Paramount's idea. It's Gene Roddenberry's idea of the 24th century, and it's very important for me to remember that. Not because I'm 'faithful to Gene's legacy,' as people love to write; it's because that's what Star Trek is. To change that is to not be doing Star Trek anymore."
Roddenberry's creation is a hopeful, idealistic, and arguably absurd view of the future: an era in which racism and poverty have been vanquished, and mankind combs the cosmos with a smile and a shoeshine. This vision is the genome that has defined Star Trek for three decades.
It's a DNA string with an infinite potential for variation - but an unwavering premise. (rick berman 1996 wired magazine)
picard is in NO way star trek
By that measure, neither is DS9.
from the same article. "When Michael Piller and I created Deep Space Nine, we said to ourselves, 'We gotta be able to generate some conflict from inside our cast.' We wanted that, but we didn't want to break Gene's rule. We decided that the conflict would come from within our characters - but not from the Starfleet humans. So we brought along Odo, a grouchy security officer, and we brought along Quark, a shifty Ferengi. And we put all these people on Deep Space Nine, which is an inhospitable environment.
"That was a way of bending Gene's rule without breaking it. And we do that every day. We do it with the language that's used, with the way stories are told, and with what stories we decide to tell. And if we find a story that's based on something Gene felt very strongly about, it becomes a big limitation."
there are no limitations on picard.the language is foul. seems every episode has murder in it.the show is not about seeking out new life and civilizations so where are they trekking to exactly and which new civilization have they encountered?.it has no science which can inspire people to become scientists or doctors etc.remember how many people have stories about becoming engineers or scientists or doctors because of star trek?.someone who watches picard will absolutely not be inspired to pursue any such profession unless one counts dissecting humans as sth close to medicine. apart from that even as a tv show it is a boring ripoff of sci fi tropes and other series such as and not limited to the terminator, star wars (cantina scene lasers, han solo etc) blade runner etc..the plot is moving at a lethargic pace and has no purpose .i mean picard (spoilers but this is a spoiler thread) has in fact saved soji why doesnt he take her back to starfleet and the daystrom institute?,why do they have to go this planet where maddox created her?maddox is dead.oh i forgot the elf from middle earth that beheads senators at will and that romulans keep disruptors in their pockets while using swords and hang out in western town bars for 14 years doing nothing but having a sign that says "romulans only" (in english) whilst the entire population is romulan.also in the measure of the man episode the whole point was to decide against creating artificial intelligence as a race and that they did .it was decided end of story.i could go on and on about how this show is not star trek and what a bad tv show it actually is but i ll stop here.fine if someone doesnt get what star trek stands for but i can say my opinion as well and i will stick to rewatching the old shows. this is absolutely not star trek and doesnt stand to logic in the least amount.
Sure it is. It's called Star Trek: Picard. See? Right there in the title. Easy to miss, I suppose.
whoever said they know how to name things anyway? freecloud sounds like a planet name to you huh lol. and commander oh? oh my lol. how about JL? not even riker or troi would dare call picard that . the orville and galaxy quest are not called star trek either but funny enough people consider them more star trek than the current so called star treks.it seems star trek has become the parody and the parody has become star trek
To the people who said I don't like the show for the same reason original series fans didn't like TNG...
NO. Absolutely not! This is WAY deeper than that. Star Trek TNG carried on the same principles of a world that had become a utopia, and an optimism for the future. As did every series made in its image. Star Trek was about what we could strive to be.
Trek, from conception, was always about morality plays and a mirror to social issues and a product of the era. It was sold as "Wagon Train to the stars" and never meant to have any consistency (you can thank the likes of DC Fontana for keeping things roughly aligned.)
It was only with TNG that we got the Utopian Rules, handed down by Roddenberry's "assistants" (aka, parasites), and promptly abandoned as soon as said "assistants" were booted off the Paramount lot after Roddenberry died, and even that was very much a product of its time.
There are flaws to STP, but it was designed to reflect the world we live in - increasingly nationalistic and parochial - which is the very DNA of Trek.
If you want to blame anyone for how STP has turned out, you'll need to go dig out all the politicians whose policies have caused a lot of voters to turn away from liberal economics.
Edit: To add, the writers obviously have a negative view of the way the world is going, which is why they maybe over egg the pudding.
There is absolutely no question that there is truth to this point. Trek did address aspects about morality and the social issues in different eras. Look at James T. Kirk and Lt. Uhura's kiss on television for instance. While Roddenberry looked for optimism in interrelationships, the backlash it got during that time period. Even in TNG, the issue of the Borg - subsequently discussed in First Contact, Picard has moral issue with the Borg. So it's not like Roddenberry didn't avoid these issues or anything.
In Picard, there is no difference, albeit one can argue that current political issues could be shoved in our faces. Nevertheless, the Federation neglected their own moral compass [which you made a good point here]. Once again, TNG mostly showed that the Federation has their flaws in morality. The best example of this is DS9 episodes "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost".
To the people who said I don't like the show for the same reason original series fans didn't like TNG...
NO. Absolutely not! This is WAY deeper than that. Star Trek TNG carried on the same principles of a world that had become a utopia, and an optimism for the future. As did every series made in its image. Star Trek was about what we could strive to be.
These people have followed JJ Abrams's lead and turned Star Trek into a dystopic nightmare. EVERYTHING that was once bright and positive has gone away. This is NOT STAR TREK.
EDITED>
Spoiler Alert. I mean literally like, today's episode, DO NOT click this if you aren't current!
Are you FREAKING kidding me with this terrible excuse for a show? They literally have to turn EVERYTHING into a dystopia! Now they've gone and killed Riker and Troi's first born son as well? No memory left intact on this train wreck of a piece of sh...
I might suggest going back and watching DS9 or Enterprise. Huge chunks of those shows were about striving for utopia when the universe is working hard against making that happen. I'm not convinced Picard is any different. Again - just because you don't like this evolution of Trek doesn't make it not Trek.
You're wrong, but you also nailed one thing: The Federation, Starfleet, our Captains - THEY were the ones striving to spread their utopia to the galaxy. WE were the ones who had found enlightenment, and by confronting a dangerous galaxy, Star Trek found a way to address the problems of today by recreating them in other worlds. Through this, we got to see how a peaceful, advanced humanity would deal with the issues we face today. Yes, the galaxy had problems, but they were addressed from that perspective.
And then you've got this absolute train wreck of a show. Even if you look past the lazy writing, the one dimensional characters, the use of "member berries" (nostalgia triggers) to throw at the audience to distract them from the aforementioned two problems - there's still the main issue: They've turned everyone into a pessimistic, dystopic tragedy.
Picard, Seven, Icheb, Riker... even Starfleet itself.
Does anyone get an f'in happy ending in this mess?
These writers clearly have absolutely NO reverence for the mythos or the characters that stood for decades. At every opportunity, they bring back characters or introduce new ones simply to subject them to trauma. I challenge you, name a character who is better off in this series.
Even our beloved Riker and Troi were brought back to be subjected to the torture of losing their first born son, simply for a lazy and nonsensical tie-in to "positronic." Which, if you knew Riker, you know there would be nothing in the galaxy that could stop him from saving his son, if the technology existed. But hey, positronic. They got to use their buzzword. Yayyy.
I grew up watching EVERY iteration of Star Trek. I can literally name any episode from one or two lines of dialog, from any of the series. I'm a millenial (the apparent audience they made this show for.) And I will say it again. THIS IS NOT STAR TREK. This is dystopic tragedy porn that takes the characters we loved and reimagines them in some sort of hellish purgatory where they're all doomed.
I'd love an Imzadis Riker and Troi card, but much prefer it be based on either their picnic in "Ménage à Troi" or wedding in Nemesis. They'd be DIP/CMD/MED, of course, but the event potential would be up there with Zhian'tara Odo.
As far as a STP Riker/Troi 'couple' card goes, you're probably right, a MED/DIP/CMD makes sense. However, I'd argue the couple are so veteran, at this point, that any skill pairing makes sense. Further, that security setup, they have at their home, would be an 'in episode' reason to give them ENG. (Unless they beamed in a contractor to set it up. ;-D) Giving them MED/DIP/ENG makes as much sense as giving a similar combo to Quark, anyway (IMO). In fact, since DB already ####### the pooch, when it comes to ENG/MED, with Loken and Jett Reno, anything goes. (Loken was only pretending to be a physician. When Kim confronts him about it, he utterly fails at having any kind of medical knowledge. Meanwhile, Jett whips up some "medical chamber" devices and keeps her crew alive for months. Which I'm sure most means she had no medical knowledge at all. =P)
I strongly support idea of Director Hugh (MED/ENG/CMD) as the recurring legendary. Those skills make perfect sense for him, and he's well positioned character-wise to be the center of a Borg or Romulan-oriented story.
Agreed. Although, I think he'd be more of a shoe-in for ENG primary, DIP secondary, and MED tertiary. Yes, CMD makes sense, because of his position, but the way we interacts with others has more of a DIP feel. Some bosses are like that. ;-D
Ten Forward Loungers - Give Your Best, Get Our Best!
Visit us on discord to find out more: https://discord.gg/hg8ZRyn/
The thread for discussing the show can be found here: https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/15403/star-trek-picard-season-1-episode-discussion-thread-expect-spoilers#latest
The whole "this is not Star Trek" vs "yes it is" is so old and tired and it's been done so many times before. That's not the topic of this thread. It adds nothing to this thread. I'd argue that it adds nothing to any conversation (ever), but that is purely my opinion. In fact, I encourage you to start your own thread and not pollute Travis's. I'll even start it for you if you can't do it yourselves.
On topic, @furyd , DB generally made piloting a CMD thing, so I would replace one that you suggested with CMD.
What would you say to Unawakened Dahj fused with Tal Shiar Assassin makes Awakened Dahj? And Unawakened Soji fused with Romulan Rubick's Cube Narek makes Awakened Soji?
What would you say to Unawakened Dahj fused with Tal Shiar Assassin makes Awakened Dahj? And Unawakened Soji fused with Romulan Rubick's Cube Narek makes Awakened Soji?
That is an interesting concept. I like it. As I've said before, I do feel like the fusion are getting out of hand. Or, maybe more specifically, they need to be chosen very carefully, rather than "throwing cards at the wall and seeing what sticks." Tuvix, for example, was quite a brilliant choice for a "surprise" fusion. I think cheesecake 7 was another. (Although I still feel like cheesecake should have the hologram trait, since the Doc's "brain" is literally what controlling 7's body.)
Anyway, I think those are potentially good ideas for fusion. However, I would like to see at least two of the cards (one for each fusion) be a 3*. Making the fusions more accessible.
Ten Forward Loungers - Give Your Best, Get Our Best!
Visit us on discord to find out more: https://discord.gg/hg8ZRyn/
The thread for discussing the show can be found here: https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/15403/star-trek-picard-season-1-episode-discussion-thread-expect-spoilers#latest
The whole "this is not Star Trek" vs "yes it is" is so old and tired and it's been done so many times before. That's not the topic of this thread. It adds nothing to this thread. I'd argue that it adds nothing to any conversation (ever), but that is purely my opinion. In fact, I encourage you to start your own thread and not pollute Travis's. I'll even start it for you if you can't do it yourselves.
On topic, @furyd , DB generally made piloting a CMD thing, so I would replace one that you suggested with CMD.
What would you say to Unawakened Dahj fused with Tal Shiar Assassin makes Awakened Dahj? And Unawakened Soji fused with Romulan Rubick's Cube Narek makes Awakened Soji?
Really good ideas, btw.
it only feels tired and old if one does not care about whatever the subject matter is.anyway its just your opinion as you say.more to the point then.i want ripped eyeball icheb, double phaser rifle seven dust in the wind bejeweled or whatever her name is , knife to the neck hugh and a beheaded romulan senator as a merge character with elnors sword to be fused for extra trekkiness.
I had no problem with Picard starting with characters that were sad and broken but they do not seem to be getting better or succeeding. They are even more broken now than they were in the beginning. It gives me the feel of Dante’s Inferno where everyone is in Hell or Purgatory. I thought the show was going to be like the Good Shepherd episode of Voyager where Janeway takes the crewmen that have fallen through the cracks on an away mission where the crew rediscover their value and purpose with Janeway’s help. Unfortunately Admiral Picard seems oblivious to the needs of his crew, he ignores Raffi’s alcoholism, Jurati’s mental distress, leaves Elnor behind, and mocks Soji’s distrust of people. Captain Picard inspired, succeeded, and fought against injustices in and out of Starfleet. I am not seeing enough of that from Admiral Picard. He just feels like some other character being performed by Patrick Stewart.
In Picard, there is no difference, albeit one can argue that current political issues could be shoved in our faces. Nevertheless, the Federation neglected their own moral compass [which you made a good point here]. Once again, TNG mostly showed that the Federation has their flaws in morality. The best example of this is DS9 episodes "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost"
A lot of subtlety has gone out of writing of late, the latest Dr Who series has suffered badly from it. There seems to be a feeling that the general public are stupid, and so rather than leave things for the viewer to deduce, it has to be screamed in your face.
It's bad writing, and whilst I don't think the writers are bad, I think there's a view that people are voting "wrong", therefore they're thick, therefore they need things hammering home rather than accepting a plurality of opinion, and people may not be stupid, just have a differing opinion and just letting good writing tell its own tale.
it only feels tired and old if one does not care about whatever the subject matter is.anyway its just your opinion as you say.more to the point then.i want ripped eyeball icheb, double phaser rifle seven dust in the wind bejeweled or whatever her name is , knife to the neck hugh and a beheaded romulan senator as a merge character with elnors sword to be fused for extra trekkiness.
It feels tired and old, because it is tired and old.
First time I saw it was TWoK - yes that TWoK, regarded as the finest Trek movie. Every series has had it.
Remind us all, what happened to Kirk's brother in TOS? Kirk's son in TSFS? How about MyCoy's dad in TFF? The fate of Spock's brother in the same film? Scotty's nephew in TWoK? Picard's brother and nephew in Generations? Even his marriage to Bev in All Good Things, along with him getting space dementia?
I should start selling Trek branded rose-tinted glasses, I'd make a mint.
Unfortunately Admiral Picard seems oblivious to the needs of his crew, he ignores Raffi’s alcoholism, Jurati’s mental distress, leaves Elnor behind, and mocks Soji’s distrust of people. Captain Picard inspired, succeeded, and fought against injustices in and out of Starfleet. I am not seeing enough of that from Admiral Picard. He just feels like some other character being performed by Patrick Stewart.
He's got Irumodic Syndrome, from early on it's been demonstrated this isn't the Picard from TNG, it's one who has hidden himself away from his, and Starfleet's, failings and who is mentally damaged as per his rant ending the interview.
Prior to it being shown, Patrick Stewart stated he only returned because it had a "Logan" feeling about it - this is Picard's last ride, choosing to go out as the best version of himself he can still be, trying to right some last few wrongs, screaming into the void that he will not die quietly on a vineyard as the world goes to hell, but in any way he can - small or great - try and do some good until mind and body finally fail him.
[On topic, @furyd , DB generally made piloting a CMD thing, so I would replace one that you suggested with CMD.
What would you say to Unawakened Dahj fused with Tal Shiar Assassin makes Awakened Dahj? And Unawakened Soji fused with Romulan Rubick's Cube Narek makes Awakened Soji?
[On topic, @furyd , DB generally made piloting a CMD thing, so I would replace one that you suggested with CMD.
What would you say to Unawakened Dahj fused with Tal Shiar Assassin makes Awakened Dahj? And Unawakened Soji fused with Romulan Rubick's Cube Narek makes Awakened Soji?
Really good ideas, btw.
I just figured we've got enough CMD!
I like the fusion ideas, better than my own.
There is absolutely an overabundance of CMD. My roster agrees with your original proposal.
Even our beloved Riker and Troi were brought back to be subjected to the torture of losing their first born son, simply for a lazy and nonsensical tie-in to "positronic." Which, if you knew Riker, you know there would be nothing in the galaxy that could stop him from saving his son, if the technology existed. But hey, positronic. They got to use their buzzword. Yayyy.
Agreed, either La Forge or Crusher would have the skills and experience needed to solve that lazy problem. And the show is just so horribly, horribly slow so far, three or four episodes' worth of content stretched out to seven. And the ship looks bad. And the characters are failing to resonate. The air is thick not just with ridiculous cigar smoke and vaping... vapors? But also with insipid conversation and avoidable plot holes and jarringly unbelievable interactions.
But I'm going to keep watching. I can find things to like in there. I don't usually like Trek kids, but Kestra was a lot of fun this week. Maybe everything is headed (painfully slowly) to a great S1 conclusion. Or maybe this is the season we'll look back on in a couple of years and laugh about, as PIC finds its feet in S3 (as Discovery has the potential to do as well) and becomes fantastic, unmissable Trek.
I sat through Spock's Brain, I endured TNG S1, my neck muscles were sore from the non-stop cringe but I made it through all four seasons of Enterprise (even singing along to the theme tune!), so I can surely give Picard a chance to find his/its feet, and take pleasure from the few highs instead of dwelling on its problems.
Hugh did a good job, so I hope he gets an appropriately-decent Legendary card - plus a 4* Descent Part 2 Hugh is well overdue!
I'd love an Imzadis Riker and Troi card, but much prefer it be based on either their picnic in "Ménage à Troi" or wedding in Nemesis. They'd be DIP/CMD/MED, of course, but the event potential would be up there with Zhian'tara Odo.
As far as a STP Riker/Troi 'couple' card goes, you're probably right, a MED/DIP/CMD makes sense. However, I'd argue the couple are so veteran, at this point, that any skill pairing makes sense. Further, that security setup, they have at their home, would be an 'in episode' reason to give them ENG. (Unless they beamed in a contractor to set it up. ;-D) Giving them MED/DIP/ENG makes as much sense as giving a similar combo to Quark, anyway (IMO). In fact, since DB already ####### the pooch, when it comes to ENG/MED, with Loken and Jett Reno, anything goes. (Loken was only pretending to be a physician. When Kim confronts him about it, he utterly fails at having any kind of medical knowledge. Meanwhile, Jett whips up some "medical chamber" devices and keeps her crew alive for months. Which I'm sure most means she had no medical knowledge at all. =P)
As I said, I'd much prefer Imzadis Riker and Troi be from TNG, but if they had to be from PIC, CMD goes out the window since they aren't really in command of anything except Kestra. Some combination of MED (Troi counsels Soji and Picard), SEC (Riker's home security system), and DIP ('cause everyone has it) makes sense.
I strongly support idea of Director Hugh (MED/ENG/CMD) as the recurring legendary. Those skills make perfect sense for him, and he's well positioned character-wise to be the center of a Borg or Romulan-oriented story.
Agreed. Although, I think he'd be more of a shoe-in for ENG primary, DIP secondary, and MED tertiary. Yes, CMD makes sense, because of his position, but the way we interacts with others has more of a DIP feel. Some bosses are like that. ;-D
Oh, I didn't give any thought to the order of skills. I seldom do.
Unfortunately Admiral Picard seems oblivious to the needs of his crew, he ignores Raffi’s alcoholism, Jurati’s mental distress, leaves Elnor behind, and mocks Soji’s distrust of people. Captain Picard inspired, succeeded, and fought against injustices in and out of Starfleet. I am not seeing enough of that from Admiral Picard. He just feels like some other character being performed by Patrick Stewart.
He's got Irumodic Syndrome, from early on it's been demonstrated this isn't the Picard from TNG, it's one who has hidden himself away from his, and Starfleet's, failings and who is mentally damaged as per his rant ending the interview.
Prior to it being shown, Patrick Stewart stated he only returned because it had a "Logan" feeling about it - this is Picard's last ride, choosing to go out as the best version of himself he can still be, trying to right some last few wrongs, screaming into the void that he will not die quietly on a vineyard as the world goes to hell, but in any way he can - small or great - try and do some good until mind and body finally fail him.
My understanding of Irumodic syndrome is that it makes him more volatile in emotions and gives him some memory issues but not that it would make it so he does not care about others around him. I feel that they had him yell at a reporter in the first episode and his doctor said he had Irumodic syndrome but then after that it was just dropped. If they showed him being himself for a bit and fully lucid then slipping then they would illustrate it better and I could excuse his behavior. There is just so little of him that is classic Picard he feels less like Captain Picard losing it and more just a whole other character. Also, what a dumb move to give him Irumodic Syndrome. Patrick Stewart is already old and his voice is gravelly, why add a third thing to weaken him just because in one possible future he had it? If you have a show named Picard then give me Picard. Ok, vent over. Hope everyone is doing well in the event.
If you have a show named Picard then give me Picard.
I feel the happenings in the latest episode have been a wake up call and you will see more of what you want in the remaining episodes. On the other hand, as Furyd already said, Patrick Stewart would not have played the role again if it/Picard would have been more of the same.
Only a fresh take on things convinced him to take up on the offer. Also people change over time. If we had a show called Apollo you would also be different as a teenager, a middle aged man and in the series age of Picard. Life and our experiences shape us, at core we will always stay the same of course, but many other things can and will change.
If you have a show named Picard then give me Picard.
I feel the happenings in the latest episode have been a wake up call and you will see more of what you want in the remaining episodes. On the other hand, as Furyd already said, Patrick Stewart would not have played the role again if it/Picard would have been more of the same.
Only a fresh take on things convinced him to take up on the offer. Also people change over time. If we had a show called Apollo you would also be different as a teenager, a middle aged man and in the series age of Picard. Life and our experiences shape us, at core we will always stay the same of course, but many other things can and will change.
I guess for me I just am not seeing enough of that Picard core and not enough of the hope and striving for something better we have seen in the other treks. I will hold off on final judgement until after the season ends but if it is just more of the same we have seen I will be disappointed. But if others like it that is good. I recognize that different people have different tastes and not everything has to appeal to me. Part of the power of trek is the differences in each show so that there is something for everyone. If this show is appealing to a group that had not been appealed to before and is expanding the fan base then it has been successful.
I just am not seeing enough of the hope and striving for something better we have seen in the other treks. If this show is appealing to a group that had not been appealed to before and is expanding the fan base then it has been successful.
That for sure. And that is on purpose. Otherwise Patrick would not have done it. And so since you personally would have wished for it to be more "classic" of course you are disappointed. Agree with your finish. New fans are good for the franchise and so also for this game.
I am enjoying Picard. And I'm keen to see where it will go.
Although I do admit...it is a bit dystopian and seemingly grim for many well known characters at the monent. Hope we get a hopeful message in it soon....the Riker / Soji ep was a step towards that.
I had another thought on the Picard mega. It will be pretty light on bonus crew unless it is planned properly. Using cast from previous shows to bolster bonus crew is the approach that I would take. Here's one possibility:
Week 1:
Akimbo Seven™️, Facer Rios, and existing Spock variant
Week 2:
Pizza Chef Riker, Commander Raffi, and existing Janeway variant
Comments
I would point to Sisko's observation that "It's easy to be a saint in Paradise" as the key to this storytelling. In TNG, Picard and his crew had the luxury of not having to stick around and live with the consequences of their preaching to a planet's leaders. It's richer to put Picard in a situation where he can't just be off to somewhere new a week later. It's certainly more persuasive to see those core values remain intact after being challenged than it is to just be told "This is how perfect people have become".
Trek, from conception, was always about morality plays and a mirror to social issues and a product of the era. It was sold as "Wagon Train to the stars" and never meant to have any consistency (you can thank the likes of DC Fontana for keeping things roughly aligned.)
It was only with TNG that we got the Utopian Rules, handed down by Roddenberry's "assistants" (aka, parasites), and promptly abandoned as soon as said "assistants" were booted off the Paramount lot after Roddenberry died, and even that was very much a product of its time.
There are flaws to STP, but it was designed to reflect the world we live in - increasingly nationalistic and parochial - which is the very DNA of Trek.
If you want to blame anyone for how STP has turned out, you'll need to go dig out all the politicians whose policies have caused a lot of voters to turn away from liberal economics.
Edit: To add, the writers obviously have a negative view of the way the world is going, which is why they maybe over egg the pudding.
I hope not, the "rising from our mistakes" trope is played out, and it'd just be a better Andromeda.
I'd rather the collapse came from something positive - say, a significant chunk of the Federation evolved to post-physical, and there simply wasn't enough people left to keep it altogether. People tried their best, but the fact so many citizens from so many worlds had left meant collapse was inevitable, supply lines were unable to be kept up, infrastructure designed for billions couldn't be maintained by a population now in the thousands.
And so the cycle of civilisation begins anew, a past resurrected through the biases of the present.
That's got plenty of scope, not just for DISCO, but also for Short Treks.
By that measure, neither is DS9.
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
A couple of Sevens - Ranger Seven(SEC/SCI/ENG) and Murdering Seven(just SEC, like the single-skill McCoy we got, a shuttle powerhouse)
A Dahj and Soji fusion set - maybe with a twist, so we have a 4* Unawakened Dahj and Unawakened Soji, both two skills, and who fuse with a 4* Dream Data to make a 5* Awakened version of each one with a third SEC skill now added.
Bjayzel might make a good recurring legendary, or Oh, as they seem to like to use the villains in many megas.
Sure it is. It's called Star Trek: Picard. See? Right there in the title. Easy to miss, I suppose.
from the same article. "When Michael Piller and I created Deep Space Nine, we said to ourselves, 'We gotta be able to generate some conflict from inside our cast.' We wanted that, but we didn't want to break Gene's rule. We decided that the conflict would come from within our characters - but not from the Starfleet humans. So we brought along Odo, a grouchy security officer, and we brought along Quark, a shifty Ferengi. And we put all these people on Deep Space Nine, which is an inhospitable environment.
"That was a way of bending Gene's rule without breaking it. And we do that every day. We do it with the language that's used, with the way stories are told, and with what stories we decide to tell. And if we find a story that's based on something Gene felt very strongly about, it becomes a big limitation."
there are no limitations on picard.the language is foul. seems every episode has murder in it.the show is not about seeking out new life and civilizations so where are they trekking to exactly and which new civilization have they encountered?.it has no science which can inspire people to become scientists or doctors etc.remember how many people have stories about becoming engineers or scientists or doctors because of star trek?.someone who watches picard will absolutely not be inspired to pursue any such profession unless one counts dissecting humans as sth close to medicine. apart from that even as a tv show it is a boring ripoff of sci fi tropes and other series such as and not limited to the terminator, star wars (cantina scene lasers, han solo etc) blade runner etc..the plot is moving at a lethargic pace and has no purpose .i mean picard (spoilers but this is a spoiler thread) has in fact saved soji why doesnt he take her back to starfleet and the daystrom institute?,why do they have to go this planet where maddox created her?maddox is dead.oh i forgot the elf from middle earth that beheads senators at will and that romulans keep disruptors in their pockets while using swords and hang out in western town bars for 14 years doing nothing but having a sign that says "romulans only" (in english) whilst the entire population is romulan.also in the measure of the man episode the whole point was to decide against creating artificial intelligence as a race and that they did .it was decided end of story.i could go on and on about how this show is not star trek and what a bad tv show it actually is but i ll stop here.fine if someone doesnt get what star trek stands for but i can say my opinion as well and i will stick to rewatching the old shows. this is absolutely not star trek and doesnt stand to logic in the least amount.
There is absolutely no question that there is truth to this point. Trek did address aspects about morality and the social issues in different eras. Look at James T. Kirk and Lt. Uhura's kiss on television for instance. While Roddenberry looked for optimism in interrelationships, the backlash it got during that time period. Even in TNG, the issue of the Borg - subsequently discussed in First Contact, Picard has moral issue with the Borg. So it's not like Roddenberry didn't avoid these issues or anything.
In Picard, there is no difference, albeit one can argue that current political issues could be shoved in our faces. Nevertheless, the Federation neglected their own moral compass [which you made a good point here]. Once again, TNG mostly showed that the Federation has their flaws in morality. The best example of this is DS9 episodes "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost".
You're wrong, but you also nailed one thing: The Federation, Starfleet, our Captains - THEY were the ones striving to spread their utopia to the galaxy. WE were the ones who had found enlightenment, and by confronting a dangerous galaxy, Star Trek found a way to address the problems of today by recreating them in other worlds. Through this, we got to see how a peaceful, advanced humanity would deal with the issues we face today. Yes, the galaxy had problems, but they were addressed from that perspective.
And then you've got this absolute train wreck of a show. Even if you look past the lazy writing, the one dimensional characters, the use of "member berries" (nostalgia triggers) to throw at the audience to distract them from the aforementioned two problems - there's still the main issue: They've turned everyone into a pessimistic, dystopic tragedy.
These writers clearly have absolutely NO reverence for the mythos or the characters that stood for decades. At every opportunity, they bring back characters or introduce new ones simply to subject them to trauma. I challenge you, name a character who is better off in this series.
I grew up watching EVERY iteration of Star Trek. I can literally name any episode from one or two lines of dialog, from any of the series. I'm a millenial (the apparent audience they made this show for.) And I will say it again. THIS IS NOT STAR TREK. This is dystopic tragedy porn that takes the characters we loved and reimagines them in some sort of hellish purgatory where they're all doomed.
Agreed. Although, I think he'd be more of a shoe-in for ENG primary, DIP secondary, and MED tertiary. Yes, CMD makes sense, because of his position, but the way we interacts with others has more of a DIP feel. Some bosses are like that. ;-D
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The whole "this is not Star Trek" vs "yes it is" is so old and tired and it's been done so many times before. That's not the topic of this thread. It adds nothing to this thread. I'd argue that it adds nothing to any conversation (ever), but that is purely my opinion. In fact, I encourage you to start your own thread and not pollute Travis's. I'll even start it for you if you can't do it yourselves.
On topic, @furyd , DB generally made piloting a CMD thing, so I would replace one that you suggested with CMD.
What would you say to Unawakened Dahj fused with Tal Shiar Assassin makes Awakened Dahj? And Unawakened Soji fused with Romulan Rubick's Cube Narek makes Awakened Soji?
Really good ideas, btw.
Anyway, I think those are potentially good ideas for fusion. However, I would like to see at least two of the cards (one for each fusion) be a 3*. Making the fusions more accessible.
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it only feels tired and old if one does not care about whatever the subject matter is.anyway its just your opinion as you say.more to the point then.i want ripped eyeball icheb, double phaser rifle seven dust in the wind bejeweled or whatever her name is , knife to the neck hugh and a beheaded romulan senator as a merge character with elnors sword to be fused for extra trekkiness.
A lot of subtlety has gone out of writing of late, the latest Dr Who series has suffered badly from it. There seems to be a feeling that the general public are stupid, and so rather than leave things for the viewer to deduce, it has to be screamed in your face.
It's bad writing, and whilst I don't think the writers are bad, I think there's a view that people are voting "wrong", therefore they're thick, therefore they need things hammering home rather than accepting a plurality of opinion, and people may not be stupid, just have a differing opinion and just letting good writing tell its own tale.
It feels tired and old, because it is tired and old.
First time I saw it was TWoK - yes that TWoK, regarded as the finest Trek movie. Every series has had it.
Remind us all, what happened to Kirk's brother in TOS? Kirk's son in TSFS? How about MyCoy's dad in TFF? The fate of Spock's brother in the same film? Scotty's nephew in TWoK? Picard's brother and nephew in Generations? Even his marriage to Bev in All Good Things, along with him getting space dementia?
I should start selling Trek branded rose-tinted glasses, I'd make a mint.
He's got Irumodic Syndrome, from early on it's been demonstrated this isn't the Picard from TNG, it's one who has hidden himself away from his, and Starfleet's, failings and who is mentally damaged as per his rant ending the interview.
Prior to it being shown, Patrick Stewart stated he only returned because it had a "Logan" feeling about it - this is Picard's last ride, choosing to go out as the best version of himself he can still be, trying to right some last few wrongs, screaming into the void that he will not die quietly on a vineyard as the world goes to hell, but in any way he can - small or great - try and do some good until mind and body finally fail him.
I just figured we've got enough CMD!
I like the fusion ideas, better than my own.
There is absolutely an overabundance of CMD. My roster agrees with your original proposal.
Agreed, either La Forge or Crusher would have the skills and experience needed to solve that lazy problem. And the show is just so horribly, horribly slow so far, three or four episodes' worth of content stretched out to seven. And the ship looks bad. And the characters are failing to resonate. The air is thick not just with ridiculous cigar smoke and vaping... vapors? But also with insipid conversation and avoidable plot holes and jarringly unbelievable interactions.
But I'm going to keep watching. I can find things to like in there. I don't usually like Trek kids, but Kestra was a lot of fun this week. Maybe everything is headed (painfully slowly) to a great S1 conclusion. Or maybe this is the season we'll look back on in a couple of years and laugh about, as PIC finds its feet in S3 (as Discovery has the potential to do as well) and becomes fantastic, unmissable Trek.
I sat through Spock's Brain, I endured TNG S1, my neck muscles were sore from the non-stop cringe but I made it through all four seasons of Enterprise (even singing along to the theme tune!), so I can surely give Picard a chance to find his/its feet, and take pleasure from the few highs instead of dwelling on its problems.
Hugh did a good job, so I hope he gets an appropriately-decent Legendary card - plus a 4* Descent Part 2 Hugh is well overdue!
Narissa.
Pizza chef Riker.
Season one, command track, Lt J.G. Worf
As I said, I'd much prefer Imzadis Riker and Troi be from TNG, but if they had to be from PIC, CMD goes out the window since they aren't really in command of anything except Kestra. Some combination of MED (Troi counsels Soji and Picard), SEC (Riker's home security system), and DIP ('cause everyone has it) makes sense.
Oh, I didn't give any thought to the order of skills. I seldom do.
My understanding of Irumodic syndrome is that it makes him more volatile in emotions and gives him some memory issues but not that it would make it so he does not care about others around him. I feel that they had him yell at a reporter in the first episode and his doctor said he had Irumodic syndrome but then after that it was just dropped. If they showed him being himself for a bit and fully lucid then slipping then they would illustrate it better and I could excuse his behavior. There is just so little of him that is classic Picard he feels less like Captain Picard losing it and more just a whole other character. Also, what a dumb move to give him Irumodic Syndrome. Patrick Stewart is already old and his voice is gravelly, why add a third thing to weaken him just because in one possible future he had it? If you have a show named Picard then give me Picard. Ok, vent over. Hope everyone is doing well in the event.
I feel the happenings in the latest episode have been a wake up call and you will see more of what you want in the remaining episodes. On the other hand, as Furyd already said, Patrick Stewart would not have played the role again if it/Picard would have been more of the same.
Only a fresh take on things convinced him to take up on the offer. Also people change over time. If we had a show called Apollo you would also be different as a teenager, a middle aged man and in the series age of Picard. Life and our experiences shape us, at core we will always stay the same of course, but many other things can and will change.
I guess for me I just am not seeing enough of that Picard core and not enough of the hope and striving for something better we have seen in the other treks. I will hold off on final judgement until after the season ends but if it is just more of the same we have seen I will be disappointed. But if others like it that is good. I recognize that different people have different tastes and not everything has to appeal to me. Part of the power of trek is the differences in each show so that there is something for everyone. If this show is appealing to a group that had not been appealed to before and is expanding the fan base then it has been successful.
That for sure. And that is on purpose. Otherwise Patrick would not have done it. And so since you personally would have wished for it to be more "classic" of course you are disappointed. Agree with your finish. New fans are good for the franchise and so also for this game.
Although I do admit...it is a bit dystopian and seemingly grim for many well known characters at the monent. Hope we get a hopeful message in it soon....the Riker / Soji ep was a step towards that.
Week 1:
Akimbo Seven™️, Facer Rios, and existing Spock variant
Week 2:
Pizza Chef Riker, Commander Raffi, and existing Janeway variant
Week 3:
Tomato Farmer Troi, Romulan Rubick's Cube Narek, and existing Dax variant
Week 4:
Disguised Picard, Kowat Milat Elnor, and existing T'Pol variant
Recurring legendary:
Commodore Oh (with sunglasses)
That's just one way to do it. It could be tweaked for sure. But that would be one way to make some measure of bonus crew would be included.