Actually, I (and @eXo | RodenberryPie) did make our own for use in eXo and with our bot. We're working on making a version that's more friendly to share in a non-bot format for folks to use if they choose in the absence of the Big Book. Our opinions differ on many cards from the BB, and our language is also a bit more... uh... colorful at times. But I'll share it when it's done. It needed to be done anyway.
“Colorful” ? Shocking. Not really, though. 😈
You did us a service, @eXo | SilverRose . I cannot thank you enough.
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
From what I've heard and seen, there are a mix of offers, between surveys, installing various apps, leveling in those apps, a few reward based on purchases in the apps. I've gotten a few dil via the offers, and if you don't want to go that path, that's up to you.
It may be useful to call out what specifically you view as predatory.
For the most part there is a tale of two offerwalls:
Apple: A mix of never-ending surveys, misleading ads for opinions (e.g. Do you like mcdonalds tagline) which lead to a never ending litany of popups all asking for personal info, signing up for trial offers of monthly services, and donating to pseudo charities (identified as non-profits, but not tax deductible).
Android: Almost 90+%, download this app and play to a certain level. Usually a nominal amount of dil for just downloading and playing a few minutes, to larger amounts for a threshold that would require cash or weeks of play. The couple I've done here worked correctly.
The wall as android has it I doubt most people would have an issue with. Sure there will be a minimal amount of tracking to make sure they know you signed up for the offer and than they can pay out when it finishes, but that's sort of implicit in signing up for each offer.
The wall on apple has it is an array of things not to do if you don't want to go through identity theft.
I tend to find fault for two things here. On is DB/WR for releasing this into the game with the Apple wall as it is, it is predatory and also creates an imbalance between users. The 2nd is apple for disallowing the type of offers that android has. They did this explicitly over a year ago, saying it was to preserve the integrity of app rankings, but I think it was more since they weren't getting a 30% cut of the payments between the destination app and the referring app.
For the most part there is a tale of two offerwalls:
Apple: A mix of never-ending surveys, misleading ads for opinions (e.g. Do you like mcdonalds tagline) which lead to a never ending litany of popups all asking for personal info, signing up for trial offers of monthly services, and donating to pseudo charities (identified as non-profits, but not tax deductible).
Android: Almost 90+%, download this app and play to a certain level. Usually a nominal amount of dil for just downloading and playing a few minutes, to larger amounts for a threshold that would require cash or weeks of play. The couple I've done here worked correctly.
The wall as android has it I doubt most people would have an issue with. Sure there will be a minimal amount of tracking to make sure they know you signed up for the offer and than they can pay out when it finishes, but that's sort of implicit in signing up for each offer.
The wall on apple has it is an array of things not to do if you don't want to go through identity theft.
I tend to find fault for two things here. On is DB/WR for releasing this into the game with the Apple wall as it is, it is predatory and also creates an imbalance between users. The 2nd is apple for disallowing the type of offers that android has. They did this explicitly over a year ago, saying it was to preserve the integrity of app rankings, but I thing it was more since they weren't getting a 30% cut of the payments between the destination app and the referring app.
This is the first comment I've read that brought up this difference — so, thank you for that. I wasn't aware that iOS and Android users saw differing offer walls, but if Apple users are only seeing those types of offers, then they're getting shortchanged. And I agree, the surveys aren't worth the time and effort — and occasionally require too much personal information to be shared, as you say — but mostly they're just not worth it, unless you have an endless supply of free time.
For iOS folks who do want to take advantage of the offers that they don't have access to on their device, I guess I'd suggest using an Android emulator on your computer (which are available for both Windows and PC... and even Linux, I'm pretty sure).
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing. ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
Hello all. The Big Book Of Behold Advice, The Little Book Of Cadet Advice, The Super Hyper Stats/Backend Sheets and My Own Datacore Analysis Sheets have all shut down in protest of the offer wall. The message is as follows:
"Finding it unsafe and predatory, we do not believe the Offer Wall is an acceptable addition to the game we all love. We cannot in good conscience support a game that employs this system. While the Offer Wall remains, this resource and certain related resources will not continue. Thank you to the players for your years of feedback and support.*
-The Big Book team (Automaton_2000, StarsAndGarters, BigMcLargeHuge, Plain SimpleGarak and Captain Idol)"
So, punish the players?
Good strategy..........
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
Hello all. The Big Book Of Behold Advice, The Little Book Of Cadet Advice, The Super Hyper Stats/Backend Sheets and My Own Datacore Analysis Sheets have all shut down in protest of the offer wall. The message is as follows:
"Finding it unsafe and predatory, we do not believe the Offer Wall is an acceptable addition to the game we all love. We cannot in good conscience support a game that employs this system. While the Offer Wall remains, this resource and certain related resources will not continue. Thank you to the players for your years of feedback and support.*
-The Big Book team (Automaton_2000, StarsAndGarters, BigMcLargeHuge, Plain SimpleGarak and Captain Idol)"
So, punish the players?
Good strategy..........
I mean, do you really expect them to keep cranking it out if they quit playing the game (which very well may happen, given the current trajectory the game is on)? This isn’t about punishing players, this is about not investing THEIR OWN TIME on a game they may not even be playing much longer. If people can’t figure out who to pick in a behold, tough. It’s probably high time they learn if they intend to keep playing.
Hello all. The Big Book Of Behold Advice, The Little Book Of Cadet Advice, The Super Hyper Stats/Backend Sheets and My Own Datacore Analysis Sheets have all shut down in protest of the offer wall. The message is as follows:
"Finding it unsafe and predatory, we do not believe the Offer Wall is an acceptable addition to the game we all love. We cannot in good conscience support a game that employs this system. While the Offer Wall remains, this resource and certain related resources will not continue. Thank you to the players for your years of feedback and support.*
-The Big Book team (Automaton_2000, StarsAndGarters, BigMcLargeHuge, Plain SimpleGarak and Captain Idol)"
So, punish the players?
Good strategy..........
I mean, do you really expect them to keep cranking it out if they quit playing the game (which very well may happen, given the current trajectory the game is on)? This isn’t about punishing players, this is about not investing THEIR OWN TIME on a game they may not even be playing much longer. If people can’t figure out who to pick in a behold, tough. It’s probably high time they learn if they intend to keep playing.
I think leaving the big book up with the first page being a warning about the problem would work better. Obviously it wouldn't be updated but current players would continue to use and any new users would see the warning as they started playing the game. This may warn early players about the issue and allow them to make decisions earlier than otherwise.
Hello all. The Big Book Of Behold Advice, The Little Book Of Cadet Advice, The Super Hyper Stats/Backend Sheets and My Own Datacore Analysis Sheets have all shut down in protest of the offer wall. The message is as follows:
"Finding it unsafe and predatory, we do not believe the Offer Wall is an acceptable addition to the game we all love. We cannot in good conscience support a game that employs this system. While the Offer Wall remains, this resource and certain related resources will not continue. Thank you to the players for your years of feedback and support.*
-The Big Book team (Automaton_2000, StarsAndGarters, BigMcLargeHuge, Plain SimpleGarak and Captain Idol)"
So, punish the players?
Good strategy..........
I mean, do you really expect them to keep cranking it out if they quit playing the game (which very well may happen, given the current trajectory the game is on)? This isn’t about punishing players, this is about not investing THEIR OWN TIME on a game they may not even be playing much longer. If people can’t figure out who to pick in a behold, tough. It’s probably high time they learn if they intend to keep playing.
I think leaving the big book up with the first page being a warning about the problem would work better. Obviously it wouldn't be updated but current players would continue to use and any new users would see the warning as they started playing the game. This may warn early players about the issue and allow them to make decisions earlier than otherwise.
I can respect your opinion but I disagree entirely. They put those resources together as a labor of love. Dedicating their own time and resources to provide something free to all players. Thats as pure as it gets.
They are shutting them down in protest of the direction taken by tp/wr which has essentially been to monetize peoples personal data.
But here you come, screaming “you gave me this for free, now you are taking it away, how dare you”.......and in the course of doing that you are missing the point entirely.
The resource creators owe you NOTHING.
However, your game developer owes EVERYONE an explanation at a minimum, and in my opinion, they owe everyone some changes that respect their customers objections/requests.
Hello all. The Big Book Of Behold Advice, The Little Book Of Cadet Advice, The Super Hyper Stats/Backend Sheets and My Own Datacore Analysis Sheets have all shut down in protest of the offer wall. The message is as follows:
"Finding it unsafe and predatory, we do not believe the Offer Wall is an acceptable addition to the game we all love. We cannot in good conscience support a game that employs this system. While the Offer Wall remains, this resource and certain related resources will not continue. Thank you to the players for your years of feedback and support.*
-The Big Book team (Automaton_2000, StarsAndGarters, BigMcLargeHuge, Plain SimpleGarak and Captain Idol)"
So, punish the players?
Good strategy..........
I mean, do you really expect them to keep cranking it out if they quit playing the game (which very well may happen, given the current trajectory the game is on)? This isn’t about punishing players, this is about not investing THEIR OWN TIME on a game they may not even be playing much longer. If people can’t figure out who to pick in a behold, tough. It’s probably high time they learn if they intend to keep playing.
I think leaving the big book up with the first page being a warning about the problem would work better. Obviously it wouldn't be updated but current players would continue to use and any new users would see the warning as they started playing the game. This may warn early players about the issue and allow them to make decisions earlier than otherwise.
I can respect your opinion but I disagree entirely. They put those resources together as a labor of love. Dedicating their own time and resources to provide something free to all players. Thats as pure as it gets.
They are shutting them down in protest of the direction taken by tp/wr which has essentially been to monetize peoples personal data.
But here you come, screaming “you gave me this for free, now you are taking it away, how dare you”.......and in the course of doing that you are missing the point entirely.
The resource creators owe you NOTHING.
However, your game developer owes EVERYONE an explanation at a minimum, and in my opinion, they owe everyone some changes that respect their customers objections/requests.
It is you who seem to have missed the point. @Madman1 was pointing out that the message would reach more people if the Big Book remained active with a message from the creators explaining why it was no longer being updated.
Hello all. The Big Book Of Behold Advice, The Little Book Of Cadet Advice, The Super Hyper Stats/Backend Sheets and My Own Datacore Analysis Sheets have all shut down in protest of the offer wall. The message is as follows:
"Finding it unsafe and predatory, we do not believe the Offer Wall is an acceptable addition to the game we all love. We cannot in good conscience support a game that employs this system. While the Offer Wall remains, this resource and certain related resources will not continue. Thank you to the players for your years of feedback and support.*
-The Big Book team (Automaton_2000, StarsAndGarters, BigMcLargeHuge, Plain SimpleGarak and Captain Idol)"
So, punish the players?
Good strategy..........
I mean, do you really expect them to keep cranking it out if they quit playing the game (which very well may happen, given the current trajectory the game is on)? This isn’t about punishing players, this is about not investing THEIR OWN TIME on a game they may not even be playing much longer. If people can’t figure out who to pick in a behold, tough. It’s probably high time they learn if they intend to keep playing.
I think leaving the big book up with the first page being a warning about the problem would work better. Obviously it wouldn't be updated but current players would continue to use and any new users would see the warning as they started playing the game. This may warn early players about the issue and allow them to make decisions earlier than otherwise.
I can respect your opinion but I disagree entirely. They put those resources together as a labor of love. Dedicating their own time and resources to provide something free to all players. Thats as pure as it gets.
They are shutting them down in protest of the direction taken by tp/wr which has essentially been to monetize peoples personal data.
But here you come, screaming “you gave me this for free, now you are taking it away, how dare you”.......and in the course of doing that you are missing the point entirely.
The resource creators owe you NOTHING.
However, your game developer owes EVERYONE an explanation at a minimum, and in my opinion, they owe everyone some changes that respect their customers objections/requests.
It is you who seem to have missed the point. @Madman1 was pointing out that the message would reach more people if the Big Book remained active with a message from the creators explaining why it was no longer being updated.
Not going to get into a battle over this. The key phrase is “remained active”. Otherwise interpreted as still available for free. The creators are contemplating whether or not they want to be involved in this game, why should their work be used in support of something that they are questioning?
Hello all. The Big Book Of Behold Advice, The Little Book Of Cadet Advice, The Super Hyper Stats/Backend Sheets and My Own Datacore Analysis Sheets have all shut down in protest of the offer wall. The message is as follows:
"Finding it unsafe and predatory, we do not believe the Offer Wall is an acceptable addition to the game we all love. We cannot in good conscience support a game that employs this system. While the Offer Wall remains, this resource and certain related resources will not continue. Thank you to the players for your years of feedback and support.*
-The Big Book team (Automaton_2000, StarsAndGarters, BigMcLargeHuge, Plain SimpleGarak and Captain Idol)"
So, punish the players?
Good strategy..........
I mean, do you really expect them to keep cranking it out if they quit playing the game (which very well may happen, given the current trajectory the game is on)? This isn’t about punishing players, this is about not investing THEIR OWN TIME on a game they may not even be playing much longer. If people can’t figure out who to pick in a behold, tough. It’s probably high time they learn if they intend to keep playing.
I think leaving the big book up with the first page being a warning about the problem would work better. Obviously it wouldn't be updated but current players would continue to use and any new users would see the warning as they started playing the game. This may warn early players about the issue and allow them to make decisions earlier than otherwise.
I can respect your opinion but I disagree entirely. They put those resources together as a labor of love. Dedicating their own time and resources to provide something free to all players. Thats as pure as it gets.
They are shutting them down in protest of the direction taken by tp/wr which has essentially been to monetize peoples personal data.
But here you come, screaming “you gave me this for free, now you are taking it away, how dare you”.......and in the course of doing that you are missing the point entirely.
The resource creators owe you NOTHING.
However, your game developer owes EVERYONE an explanation at a minimum, and in my opinion, they owe everyone some changes that respect their customers objections/requests.
It is you who seem to have missed the point. @Madman1 was pointing out that the message would reach more people if the Big Book remained active with a message from the creators explaining why it was no longer being updated.
Not going to get into a battle over this. The key phrase is “remained active”. Otherwise interpreted as still available for free. The creators are contemplating whether or not they want to be involved in this game, why should their work be used in support of something that they are questioning?
I very much enjoy how you are always so careful to ignore what is being said so dismissively. Madman1 was merely offering a suggestion that this message the creators are so passionate about would have a greater impact going forward if it was attached to a document they created out of their love of the community. It is feedback, to the creators. For all you know it was intended to be supportive.
Hello all. The Big Book Of Behold Advice, The Little Book Of Cadet Advice, The Super Hyper Stats/Backend Sheets and My Own Datacore Analysis Sheets have all shut down in protest of the offer wall. The message is as follows:
"Finding it unsafe and predatory, we do not believe the Offer Wall is an acceptable addition to the game we all love. We cannot in good conscience support a game that employs this system. While the Offer Wall remains, this resource and certain related resources will not continue. Thank you to the players for your years of feedback and support.*
-The Big Book team (Automaton_2000, StarsAndGarters, BigMcLargeHuge, Plain SimpleGarak and Captain Idol)"
So, punish the players?
Good strategy..........
I mean, do you really expect them to keep cranking it out if they quit playing the game (which very well may happen, given the current trajectory the game is on)? This isn’t about punishing players, this is about not investing THEIR OWN TIME on a game they may not even be playing much longer. If people can’t figure out who to pick in a behold, tough. It’s probably high time they learn if they intend to keep playing.
They created the content. They are free to do with it whatever they want. And, I am just as free to point out that withdrawing the things listed affects the players, not DB/WRG/TP/WTWBNW......
The Big Book does not generate income for the company. The Offer Wall does.
WTWBNW = "Whatever They Will Be Next Week". On retrospect, the name/ownership changes look much less benign now that the Offer Wall is in the game. Just an observation.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
They created the content. They are free to do with it whatever they want. And, I am just as free to point out that withdrawing the things listed affects the players, not DB/WRG/TP/WTWBNW......
The Big Book does not generate income for the company. The Offer Wall does.
WTWBNW = "Whatever They Will Be Next Week". On retrospect, the name/ownership changes look much less benign now that the Offer Wall is in the game. Just an observation.
[/quote]
Kind of like TP rolled in and said “knock knock, where’s our money?” after their large investment.
Hello all. The Big Book Of Behold Advice, The Little Book Of Cadet Advice, The Super Hyper Stats/Backend Sheets and My Own Datacore Analysis Sheets have all shut down in protest of the offer wall. The message is as follows:
"Finding it unsafe and predatory, we do not believe the Offer Wall is an acceptable addition to the game we all love. We cannot in good conscience support a game that employs this system. While the Offer Wall remains, this resource and certain related resources will not continue. Thank you to the players for your years of feedback and support.*
-The Big Book team (Automaton_2000, StarsAndGarters, BigMcLargeHuge, Plain SimpleGarak and Captain Idol)"
Punish everyone? Sounds like that old saying "taking my ball and going home because I didn't get my way"
Honestly, if they don’t want to maintain it anymore, I think it makes sense to pull it down. I started playing the game shortly after the first convergence day and I followed outdated guides on the old forums that likely did more harm than good in the beginning, at least for me. It wouldn’t take too long before the BBB to become outdated either, and new players would be relying on outdated info.
Besides, they created it, and they made their own decision about what they thought was right to do with it. I think it’s only fair to respect that.
Hello all. The Big Book Of Behold Advice, The Little Book Of Cadet Advice, The Super Hyper Stats/Backend Sheets and My Own Datacore Analysis Sheets have all shut down in protest of the offer wall. The message is as follows:
"Finding it unsafe and predatory, we do not believe the Offer Wall is an acceptable addition to the game we all love. We cannot in good conscience support a game that employs this system. While the Offer Wall remains, this resource and certain related resources will not continue. Thank you to the players for your years of feedback and support.*
-The Big Book team (Automaton_2000, StarsAndGarters, BigMcLargeHuge, Plain SimpleGarak and Captain Idol)"
That imo is stupid. Sounds like that old saying "taking my ball and going home because I didn't get my way"
Not really. They've provided these resources out of the goodness of their hearts and at their own expense (in time, money and effort). Why would they continue to do so in support of a game they no longer want to play (or no longer feel they can play however much they want to)? Expecting them to do any different at this point is just selfishness.
Thank you guys, for all the effort you've put into supporting the community. It's a crying shame that it's come to this. TP need to understand how badly they've screwed this one up.
Honestly, if they don’t want to maintain it anymore, I think it makes sense to pull it down. I started playing the game shortly after the first convergence day and I followed outdated guides on the old forums that likely did more harm than good in the beginning, at least for me. It wouldn’t take too long before the BBB to become outdated either, and new players would be relying on outdated info.
Besides, they created it, and they made their own decision about what they thought was right to do with it. I think it’s only fair to respect that.
Hello all. The Big Book Of Behold Advice, The Little Book Of Cadet Advice, The Super Hyper Stats/Backend Sheets and My Own Datacore Analysis Sheets have all shut down in protest of the offer wall. The message is as follows:
"Finding it unsafe and predatory, we do not believe the Offer Wall is an acceptable addition to the game we all love. We cannot in good conscience support a game that employs this system. While the Offer Wall remains, this resource and certain related resources will not continue. Thank you to the players for your years of feedback and support.*
-The Big Book team (Automaton_2000, StarsAndGarters, BigMcLargeHuge, Plain SimpleGarak and Captain Idol)"
That imo is stupid. Sounds like that old saying "taking my ball and going home because I didn't get my way"
Not really. They've provided these resources out of the goodness of their hearts and at their own expense (in time, money and effort). Why would they continue to do so in support of a game they no longer want to play (or no longer feel they can play however much they want to)? Expecting them to do any different at this point is just selfishness.
Thank you guys, for all the effort you've put into supporting the community. It's a crying shame that it's come to this. TP need to understand how badly they've screwed this one up.
Yes, punish everyone was the way I took it... "While the Offer Wall remains....."
Hello all. The Big Book Of Behold Advice, The Little Book Of Cadet Advice, The Super Hyper Stats/Backend Sheets and My Own Datacore Analysis Sheets have all shut down in protest of the offer wall. The message is as follows:
"Finding it unsafe and predatory, we do not believe the Offer Wall is an acceptable addition to the game we all love. We cannot in good conscience support a game that employs this system. While the Offer Wall remains, this resource and certain related resources will not continue. Thank you to the players for your years of feedback and support.*
-The Big Book team (Automaton_2000, StarsAndGarters, BigMcLargeHuge, Plain SimpleGarak and Captain Idol)"
That imo is stupid. Sounds like that old saying "taking my ball and going home because I didn't get my way"
Not really. They've provided these resources out of the goodness of their hearts and at their own expense (in time, money and effort). Why would they continue to do so in support of a game they no longer want to play (or no longer feel they can play however much they want to)? Expecting them to do any different at this point is just selfishness.
Thank you guys, for all the effort you've put into supporting the community. It's a crying shame that it's come to this. TP need to understand how badly they've screwed this one up.
Yes, punish everyone was the way I took it... "While the Offer Wall remains....."
Well, no more free stuff for you, then. Learn on your own time.
"In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." — Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
Hello all. The Big Book Of Behold Advice, The Little Book Of Cadet Advice, The Super Hyper Stats/Backend Sheets and My Own Datacore Analysis Sheets have all shut down in protest of the offer wall. The message is as follows:
"Finding it unsafe and predatory, we do not believe the Offer Wall is an acceptable addition to the game we all love. We cannot in good conscience support a game that employs this system. While the Offer Wall remains, this resource and certain related resources will not continue. Thank you to the players for your years of feedback and support.*
-The Big Book team (Automaton_2000, StarsAndGarters, BigMcLargeHuge, Plain SimpleGarak and Captain Idol)"
That imo is stupid. Sounds like that old saying "taking my ball and going home because I didn't get my way"
Not really. They've provided these resources out of the goodness of their hearts and at their own expense (in time, money and effort). Why would they continue to do so in support of a game they no longer want to play (or no longer feel they can play however much they want to)? Expecting them to do any different at this point is just selfishness.
Thank you guys, for all the effort you've put into supporting the community. It's a crying shame that it's come to this. TP need to understand how badly they've screwed this one up.
Yes, punish everyone was the way I took it... "While the Offer Wall remains....."
Well, no more free stuff for you, then. Learn on your own time.
Hello all. The Big Book Of Behold Advice, The Little Book Of Cadet Advice, The Super Hyper Stats/Backend Sheets and My Own Datacore Analysis Sheets have all shut down in protest of the offer wall. The message is as follows:
"Finding it unsafe and predatory, we do not believe the Offer Wall is an acceptable addition to the game we all love. We cannot in good conscience support a game that employs this system. While the Offer Wall remains, this resource and certain related resources will not continue. Thank you to the players for your years of feedback and support.*
-The Big Book team (Automaton_2000, StarsAndGarters, BigMcLargeHuge, Plain SimpleGarak and Captain Idol)"
That imo is stupid. Sounds like that old saying "taking my ball and going home because I didn't get my way"
Not really. They've provided these resources out of the goodness of their hearts and at their own expense (in time, money and effort). Why would they continue to do so in support of a game they no longer want to play (or no longer feel they can play however much they want to)? Expecting them to do any different at this point is just selfishness.
Thank you guys, for all the effort you've put into supporting the community. It's a crying shame that it's come to this. TP need to understand how badly they've screwed this one up.
Yes, punish everyone was the way I took it... "While the Offer Wall remains....."
Well, no more free stuff for you, then. Learn on your own time.
Thank you to the Big Book team for all they have provided to the community. I appreciate all the work they put into what they do. The game resources they have provided have definitely made the game more enjoyable and interesting to me (and have given me a place to send new fleet mates to figure out their beholds). I enjoy the crew write-ups and like to read them as they come out. I will be sad to see those resources go if this offer wall situation cannot be resolved, but I very much support the stand they are taking.
The offer wall does not appear to be an ethical addition to the game. It has too much potential, as managed by ironSource, to lead the unwary into unfortunate situations, sharing data that they should not be sharing. If no one was fooled by them (mostly referring to what I've heard about some of the linked surveys) they wouldn't exist in such abundance. Be careful out there!
Thank you to the Big Book team for all they have provided to the community. I appreciate all the work they put into what they do. The game resources they have provided have definitely made the game more enjoyable and interesting to me (and have given me a place to send new fleet mates to figure out their beholds). I enjoy the crew write-ups and like to read them as they come out. I will be sad to see those resources go if this offer wall situation cannot be resolved, but I very much support the stand they are taking.
The offer wall does not appear to be an ethical addition to the game. It has too much potential, as managed by ironSource, to lead the unwary into unfortunate situations, sharing data that they should not be sharing. If no one was fooled by them (mostly referring to what I've heard about some of the linked surveys) they wouldn't exist in such abundance. Be careful out there!
Frankly, I doubt the company will care in any way. Why? Because most if not almost all of their offers are crappy enough (and I gotta admit I fell for some).
I guess the OP didn't cover it, but BB updates were not going to continue, regardless of us putting up this message. This is everybody's chance to make their opinions heard about the Offer Wall. As BigMcLargeHuge said earlier, even if we were all to continue playing through this (which I don't believe is the case), the enjoyment and enthusiasm to continue producing a labor of love is missing.
Second, we did not ask the DataCore or Doroexplo sites to do anything. All of the Big Book content is still available there. This has been about as contained and benign of a protest as we could manage, specifically because we do care about the community.
In all sincerity and without sarcasm, if players channeled their indignation at their friends, fleetmates, and fellow players getting scammed by recursive surveys and broken offers instead of at this protest, that would be a far greater help to the community.
I followed outdated guides on the old forums that likely did more harm than good in the beginning, at least for me. It wouldn’t take too long before the BBB to become outdated either, and new players would be relying on outdated info.
Yup. I took Commander Uhura when I started playing because an outdated guide gave her an A grade and ended up never using her. Between the five of us, I'd say the average week sees a few dozen hours go into the BB; notes, tiers, building and maintaining ancillary tools and tracking for more accurate metrics, etc. It's been a part-time job (and sometimes a second full time job) for two years now. I didn't sell my soul to the company store to keep plugging away at something I don't believe in.
I wasn't sure where to add my tuppence worth but I'm sure Idol won't mind me crashing his post. Since this announcement was made in fleet discord last night 4 of my senior officers have announced retirement plans and asked to move to one of our sister fleets.
WRG/TP I am asking that you please PLEASE look at how you are engaged with your player base right now. I am genuinely saddened to see so many players leaving, with even more saying they're refusing to spend money anymore.
I've had problems playing for a few weeks now, for a variety of reasons (its repetitive with little new gaming content and the new cards are just not appealing to me. Okay I liked activated Dahj) and I've not managed dailies for a few days. I'm not buying the campaign this month so I don't have the need to get everything finished. My reluctance to play is being further impacted by the current player reaction. There are so many arguments and disagreements across every community base it's disheartening and disappointing to read. It makes me sad. I've seen a fair few players point out that some effective communication from the devs to the players would have been appreciated (Shan, that comment is absolutely not directed at you, almost everyone loves you and thinks you do an incredible job under what are sometimes really difficult circumstances)
To sum up WRG, please pull your socks up and get on with the job before you discover half your players have left while you spend your time dithering about releasing a statement. Communication is absolutely key here. You can hail us anytime.
Comments
“Colorful” ? Shocking. Not really, though. 😈
You did us a service, @eXo | SilverRose . I cannot thank you enough.
For the most part there is a tale of two offerwalls:
Apple: A mix of never-ending surveys, misleading ads for opinions (e.g. Do you like mcdonalds tagline) which lead to a never ending litany of popups all asking for personal info, signing up for trial offers of monthly services, and donating to pseudo charities (identified as non-profits, but not tax deductible).
Android: Almost 90+%, download this app and play to a certain level. Usually a nominal amount of dil for just downloading and playing a few minutes, to larger amounts for a threshold that would require cash or weeks of play. The couple I've done here worked correctly.
The wall as android has it I doubt most people would have an issue with. Sure there will be a minimal amount of tracking to make sure they know you signed up for the offer and than they can pay out when it finishes, but that's sort of implicit in signing up for each offer.
The wall on apple has it is an array of things not to do if you don't want to go through identity theft.
I tend to find fault for two things here. On is DB/WR for releasing this into the game with the Apple wall as it is, it is predatory and also creates an imbalance between users. The 2nd is apple for disallowing the type of offers that android has. They did this explicitly over a year ago, saying it was to preserve the integrity of app rankings, but I think it was more since they weren't getting a 30% cut of the payments between the destination app and the referring app.
This is the first comment I've read that brought up this difference — so, thank you for that. I wasn't aware that iOS and Android users saw differing offer walls, but if Apple users are only seeing those types of offers, then they're getting shortchanged. And I agree, the surveys aren't worth the time and effort — and occasionally require too much personal information to be shared, as you say — but mostly they're just not worth it, unless you have an endless supply of free time.
For iOS folks who do want to take advantage of the offers that they don't have access to on their device, I guess I'd suggest using an Android emulator on your computer (which are available for both Windows and PC... and even Linux, I'm pretty sure).
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
So, punish the players?
Good strategy..........
I mean, do you really expect them to keep cranking it out if they quit playing the game (which very well may happen, given the current trajectory the game is on)? This isn’t about punishing players, this is about not investing THEIR OWN TIME on a game they may not even be playing much longer. If people can’t figure out who to pick in a behold, tough. It’s probably high time they learn if they intend to keep playing.
I think leaving the big book up with the first page being a warning about the problem would work better. Obviously it wouldn't be updated but current players would continue to use and any new users would see the warning as they started playing the game. This may warn early players about the issue and allow them to make decisions earlier than otherwise.
I can respect your opinion but I disagree entirely. They put those resources together as a labor of love. Dedicating their own time and resources to provide something free to all players. Thats as pure as it gets.
They are shutting them down in protest of the direction taken by tp/wr which has essentially been to monetize peoples personal data.
But here you come, screaming “you gave me this for free, now you are taking it away, how dare you”.......and in the course of doing that you are missing the point entirely.
The resource creators owe you NOTHING.
However, your game developer owes EVERYONE an explanation at a minimum, and in my opinion, they owe everyone some changes that respect their customers objections/requests.
It is you who seem to have missed the point. @Madman1 was pointing out that the message would reach more people if the Big Book remained active with a message from the creators explaining why it was no longer being updated.
Not going to get into a battle over this. The key phrase is “remained active”. Otherwise interpreted as still available for free. The creators are contemplating whether or not they want to be involved in this game, why should their work be used in support of something that they are questioning?
I very much enjoy how you are always so careful to ignore what is being said so dismissively. Madman1 was merely offering a suggestion that this message the creators are so passionate about would have a greater impact going forward if it was attached to a document they created out of their love of the community. It is feedback, to the creators. For all you know it was intended to be supportive.
They created the content. They are free to do with it whatever they want. And, I am just as free to point out that withdrawing the things listed affects the players, not DB/WRG/TP/WTWBNW......
The Big Book does not generate income for the company. The Offer Wall does.
WTWBNW = "Whatever They Will Be Next Week". On retrospect, the name/ownership changes look much less benign now that the Offer Wall is in the game. Just an observation.
They created the content. They are free to do with it whatever they want. And, I am just as free to point out that withdrawing the things listed affects the players, not DB/WRG/TP/WTWBNW......
The Big Book does not generate income for the company. The Offer Wall does.
WTWBNW = "Whatever They Will Be Next Week". On retrospect, the name/ownership changes look much less benign now that the Offer Wall is in the game. Just an observation.
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Kind of like TP rolled in and said “knock knock, where’s our money?” after their large investment.
It's okay, Randy. Change is difficult, and transitions are trying.
Punish everyone? Sounds like that old saying "taking my ball and going home because I didn't get my way"
Besides, they created it, and they made their own decision about what they thought was right to do with it. I think it’s only fair to respect that.
Thank you guys, for all the effort you've put into supporting the community. It's a crying shame that it's come to this. TP need to understand how badly they've screwed this one up.
Well said.
Yes, punish everyone was the way I took it... "While the Offer Wall remains....."
Well, no more free stuff for you, then. Learn on your own time.
You too
I'm sure you do lol
The offer wall does not appear to be an ethical addition to the game. It has too much potential, as managed by ironSource, to lead the unwary into unfortunate situations, sharing data that they should not be sharing. If no one was fooled by them (mostly referring to what I've heard about some of the linked surveys) they wouldn't exist in such abundance. Be careful out there!
This.
Second, we did not ask the DataCore or Doroexplo sites to do anything. All of the Big Book content is still available there. This has been about as contained and benign of a protest as we could manage, specifically because we do care about the community.
In all sincerity and without sarcasm, if players channeled their indignation at their friends, fleetmates, and fellow players getting scammed by recursive surveys and broken offers instead of at this protest, that would be a far greater help to the community.
Yup. I took Commander Uhura when I started playing because an outdated guide gave her an A grade and ended up never using her. Between the five of us, I'd say the average week sees a few dozen hours go into the BB; notes, tiers, building and maintaining ancillary tools and tracking for more accurate metrics, etc. It's been a part-time job (and sometimes a second full time job) for two years now. I didn't sell my soul to the company store to keep plugging away at something I don't believe in.
WRG/TP I am asking that you please PLEASE look at how you are engaged with your player base right now. I am genuinely saddened to see so many players leaving, with even more saying they're refusing to spend money anymore.
I've had problems playing for a few weeks now, for a variety of reasons (its repetitive with little new gaming content and the new cards are just not appealing to me. Okay I liked activated Dahj) and I've not managed dailies for a few days. I'm not buying the campaign this month so I don't have the need to get everything finished. My reluctance to play is being further impacted by the current player reaction. There are so many arguments and disagreements across every community base it's disheartening and disappointing to read. It makes me sad. I've seen a fair few players point out that some effective communication from the devs to the players would have been appreciated (Shan, that comment is absolutely not directed at you, almost everyone loves you and thinks you do an incredible job under what are sometimes really difficult circumstances)
To sum up WRG, please pull your socks up and get on with the job before you discover half your players have left while you spend your time dithering about releasing a statement. Communication is absolutely key here. You can hail us anytime.
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