Home The Bridge

The Big Book Of Behold Advice WAS Shut Down In Protest (Now Back Up, See OP)

1235789

Comments

  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    People tend to get fired up around here over stuff. And I freely admit I am one of the people who feel that losing the resources people use to improve their game, hurts players more than the game company. It's like shooting your cousin's cat because your neighbor's dog barks too loud.

    However, long-term players who spend a lot each month quitting, will affect the company. So, I'm 💯% behind poor Cuddles taking one behind the ear. If that makes sense.....


    "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
  • People tend to get fired up around here over stuff. And I freely admit I am one of the people who feel that losing the resources people use to improve their game, hurts players more than the game company. It's like shooting your cousin's cat because your neighbor's dog barks too loud.

    However, long-term players who spend a lot each month quitting, will affect the company. So, I'm 💯% behind poor Cuddles taking one behind the ear. If that makes sense.....


    Makes perfect sense. I’m hurting over losing the resources, but I agree with the statement. So I’m joining it.
  • edited July 2020
    > In addition, opting out may not stop data from being collected

    That's exactly the subject of our protests. IronSource is shaddy as ****, and they're not even hiding it. @Shan, ffs, talk about it with the people responsible for this offer wall
  • Princess TristaPrincess Trista ✭✭✭✭✭
    Guest  wrote: »
    Your information is not being sold more from the game than anything else you do on the internet if you ignore the wall or ignore the surveys in the wall, or do the surveys but use not genuine information.

    Can you post a source for this information?

    I've not seen any official announcements from DB/TP/WRG to back up your claims, nor have I seen anything on the IronSource website that would substantiate your claim.

    Shan's official statement did state: "we implemented this feature by choosing the most cautious option available: denying consent regarding the sharing of personal data by default".

    But if you check the IronSource website they state "In addition, opting out may not stop data from being collected from your device or transferred for other, non-personalized advertising purposes such as optimization, reporting, frequency capping, internal operations, and fraud prevention."

    The source for my information is:
    https://developers.ironsrc.com/ironsource-mobile/air/ironsource-mobile-privacy-policy/

    Since you are asserting that if one is ignoring the wall, et al, the results are no different from other internet sites, I would very much like to read the source of your information. Thank You!

    Are you saying that Ironsource can still collect information on any player even if they do not open the offer wall? Or did I misread that @Guest 
  • I wanted to thank everyone who put the work into these resources. While I'm sure Shan understands this, I think it's worth noting these resources did help the game make money. They helped me transition from a casual player who'd been inactive for a long time to a more organized and competitive player. I've absolutely bought more dil and watched more ads than I would have otherwise.

    Does the amount I've spent come anywhere close to what Ironsource is offering? Absolutely not. Will it change my spending going forward? I'm not sure yet. I've gotten more connected to my fleet community, so that might compensate. But the loss of these resources is a lost revenue stream for TP, even if it's only a small one
  • ChaosChild wrote: »
    Guest  wrote: »
    Your information is not being sold more from the game than anything else you do on the internet if you ignore the wall or ignore the surveys in the wall, or do the surveys but use not genuine information.

    Can you post a source for this information?

    I've not seen any official announcements from DB/TP/WRG to back up your claims, nor have I seen anything on the IronSource website that would substantiate your claim.

    Shan's official statement did state: "we implemented this feature by choosing the most cautious option available: denying consent regarding the sharing of personal data by default".

    But if you check the IronSource website they state "In addition, opting out may not stop data from being collected from your device or transferred for other, non-personalized advertising purposes such as optimization, reporting, frequency capping, internal operations, and fraud prevention."

    The source for my information is:
    https://developers.ironsrc.com/ironsource-mobile/air/ironsource-mobile-privacy-policy/

    Since you are asserting that if one is ignoring the wall, et al, the results are no different from other internet sites, I would very much like to read the source of your information. Thank You!

    Are you saying that Ironsource can still collect information on any player even if they do not open the offer wall? Or did I misread that @Guest 

    This is the question we've been looking for a definitive answer on, so far TP haven't seen fit to confirm or deny. There is information on Ironsource's website that states that yes, they can. And that they can collect that data even if the user hasn't given their consent. Whether that information is accurate or is just an overblown marketing claim on Ironsource's part is pretty much key to this whole mess, and TP's continued silence on the matter doesn't inspire confidence.

    Personally, the answer to this question will determine whether I continue to play.
  • Hi!

    I’m retiring the DataCore bot and website by the end of the month. They are open source if anyone wants to pick them up.

    This is partly due to the scummy direction the game is taking (adware, Offer Wall) and partly due to the project becoming a big time and money sink for me.

    Live long and prosper!

    As someone that plays on the PC version, I didn't think this offer wall thing would affect me, but not having access to the voyage calculator will be a huge loss, so that might mean that I'm going to have to stop playing too.

    Would you please be able to post the logic used for the voyage calculator? I'm not sure I'd be able to replicate it, but I could at least give it a go.

    If anyone knows of a way to convert the data extract to something usable, that would be helpful too.

    Thanks
    Hi!

    I’m retiring the DataCore bot and website by the end of the month. They are open source if anyone wants to pick them up (see datacore.app for links and details).

    This is partly due to the scummy direction the game is taking (adware, Offer Wall) and partly due to the project becoming a big time and money sink for me.

    Live long and prosper!

    Well this was a punch in the gut to wake up to. Datacore is an invaluable tool. I use it every single day. I’m not sure I can manage regular 10 hour voyages without it. Datacore will often get me to 11.5 hour voyages. I’ll miss it. Thank you for making it

    Community members are coming together for Datacore, but for whoever needs it there are voyage estimators that'll help if there's a limbo. The Got Bot on Discord has a voyage estimation function. and Chewable's original voyage estimator page: https://codepen.io/somnivore/full/Nabyzw from before he retired. He made a bot version of it also if you'd like to use it. I've found I do well on voyages with these.
  • MiT SanoaMiT Sanoa ✭✭✭✭✭
    Guest  wrote: »
    Your information is not being sold more from the game than anything else you do on the internet if you ignore the wall or ignore the surveys in the wall, or do the surveys but use not genuine information.

    Can you post a source for this information?

    I've not seen any official announcements from DB/TP/WRG to back up your claims, nor have I seen anything on the IronSource website that would substantiate your claim.

    Shan's official statement did state: "we implemented this feature by choosing the most cautious option available: denying consent regarding the sharing of personal data by default".

    But if you check the IronSource website they state "In addition, opting out may not stop data from being collected from your device or transferred for other, non-personalized advertising purposes such as optimization, reporting, frequency capping, internal operations, and fraud prevention."

    The source for my information is:
    https://developers.ironsrc.com/ironsource-mobile/air/ironsource-mobile-privacy-policy/

    Since you are asserting that if one is ignoring the wall, et al, the results are no different from other internet sites, I would very much like to read the source of your information. Thank You!

    Are you saying that Ironsource can still collect information on any player even if they do not open the offer wall? Or did I misread that @Guest 

    I understood the official statement as: "Ironsource provided the ads before already and collected various data, but they cannot collect additional data through the wall if you do not actively provide informations." I am just not sure if data was only provided when watching ads or with the pure implementation of the ad offers. Anyway it basically sucked already before the wall arrived but noone cared.

    On topic: Thanks for the tools while they were available, they were absolutely awesome. I will miss them, but I fully understand you taking them down, no matter your motivation, be it the wall, money or grown disinterest in the game. Farewell & maybe we will see again sooner or later.
    Wir, die Mirror Tribbles [MiT] haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase und täglich 700 ISM.
  • ShadowPresenceShadowPresence ✭✭✭✭
    Thank you for the resources you provided! I hope the best for you in the direction you move forward.

    As for all the people complaining about losing these resources, grow up! If this is what's rocked your world, then I hope you're nowhere near my location considering all the things going on around the world.
  • <TGE> Darxide<TGE> Darxide ✭✭✭✭
    cmdrworf wrote: »
    I'm on the other side. As I am one of the main people that runs the Do Not Airlock Checklist, I will continue to keep it updated as I do not wish to punish the community. I'm withholding my personal opinions as too much is being stated without knowing all of the facts behind it and I do not wish to join the fray until we actually have all the facts.

    Those perpetually in the middle are doomed to be the first taken out by the crossfire. Opinions are not formed in stone (or at least should not be) and should be formed as the facts come in and should therefore be malleable depending upon new facts, but you being a fence sitter is going to get you nowhere.
  • Thurthorad wrote: »
    I've a few thoughts on all of this.

    1) This was, and continues to be, very badly handled by TP. As a long standing customer who is awaiting proper updates to the game this smacks of a waste of development time. They may have doubled their staff, but I'm going to need to see some sort of road map for their development for this to impress me after seeing what they've been spending their recent development time on.

    2) If the tools that private people build are so important to everyday play of the game then TP should be doing it. If those tools are then withdrawn it *will* hurt TP. Those of you suffering withdrawal are angry at the wrong people. This is all TPs fault, regardless of the current situation. Players have been providing you quality of life that was unpaid for and the real benefactors were TP/DB who happily took all your money for only delivering a part of your player experience.

    3) This situation has blown up at least partly because many in the community have been waiting a very long time for this game to freshen up, and they have one foot already out the door. It's easy to walk away when there's not much keeping you here. The game is in a *very* bad place right now. It's stale, the company is very poor at building any enthusiasm for the game, and the player base is in constant and noticeable decline.

    I reckon this game is dead man walking right now. Anyone who spends money on it is taking a big gamble. Again, it's TPs responsibility to turn this around. They can either do it by stepping down into the gutter and using every dirty monetisation trick in the book, or they can actually freshen up the game and add some new systems to keep the existing player base spending money. The evidence we've seen so far is that they are going for the former rather than the latter. Convince me different Tilting Point. If they can't do that, everyone should walk away.

    This.
    Ten Forward Loungers - Give Your Best, Get Our Best!
    Visit us on discord to find out more:
    https://discord.gg/hg8ZRyn/
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's a question for the protesters, whether it's one of our intrepid player-made resource creators, "whales", or even VIP 0 F2P players refusing to play or reinstall the app on their phones. What conditions would need to be met for you to feel this has been satisfactorily addressed enough for you to feel comfortable with resuming? To be clear, I'm not asking anyone to open negotiations here and commit to resuming if x, y, and z were done by TP. I'm just asking what x, y, and z are that would make you feel comfortable about resuming?

    I ask because I think a lot of us are upset but don't really know what would be "enough" to make it right. It's easier to point out what the problem is than to identify the most satisfying solution, and harder still if, like me, you don't speak tech and/or legalese well enough to know what those conditions should be. Most of us don't have created player-made resources to take down in protest, so we can't follow your lead on that. But we can get behind a clear rubric to measure TP's response and follow-up(s) that we may not understand well enough to set on our own.

    For me, it's at the very least being told that they are working on a system as revolutionary as Voyages was. I expect others will want to see the offer wall removed from the game, and I'd certainly be happy to see that too, but I will suffer it if there are to going to be actual game improvements.

    In truth I expect it's all too little too late now. I am guessing that Tilting Points intention when they took over this game was to use it as a test bed for monetisation schemes that they can then offer to sell other games as 'solutions'. Again, I think this because this latest development and the lack of other substantial development is the evidence we have. If Tilting Point want to convince me otherwise I'm all ears.
  • [10F]risky Dingo[10F]risky Dingo ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    Here's a question for the protesters, whether it's one of our intrepid player-made resource creators, "whales", or even VIP 0 F2P players refusing to play or reinstall the app on their phones. What conditions would need to be met for you to feel this has been satisfactorily addressed enough for you to feel comfortable with resuming? To be clear, I'm not asking anyone to open negotiations here and commit to resuming if x, y, and z were done by TP. I'm just asking what x, y, and z are that would make you feel comfortable about resuming?

    I ask because I think a lot of us are upset but don't really know what would be "enough" to make it right. It's easier to point out what the problem is than to identify the most satisfying solution, and harder still if, like me, you don't speak tech and/or legalese well enough to know what those conditions should be. Most of us don't have created player-made resources to take down in protest, so we can't follow your lead on that. But we can get behind a clear rubric to measure TP's response and follow-up(s) that we may not understand well enough to set on our own.

    Excellent question. I don't know if this is a good answer, but: for me, the short term answer would be, when the BB team, and datacore team, are satisfied. They have been clear about what they want and I stand behind them.

    The long term answer would be, for TP/WRG to get rid of the offer wall, as run by IronSource, and make their own offer wall. Cut out the middle man. STT has a LOT of fans that want to support the game. However, it is clear that many will not, so long as the offer wall (in it's current form) exists.
    Ten Forward Loungers - Give Your Best, Get Our Best!
    Visit us on discord to find out more:
    https://discord.gg/hg8ZRyn/
  • Seven ConstanzaSeven Constanza ✭✭✭✭
    Get rid of IronSource and the offer wall. I play the game on an iPad so anything there would be those lousy surveys which I refuse to spend my time on even by putting in fake answers and a junk email address.
    I’m hanging around to see what more of an answer we get from TP/WRG but I’m not too hopeful it’ll be anything of substance that would make me comfortable continuing on. The answers to questions asked here in the forum should have been at the ready for TP to respond instead it takes several days ... I’m guessing it’ll take at least as long for the next message to be delivered.
  • Thurthorad wrote: »
    This situation has blown up at least partly because many in the community have been waiting a very long time for this game to freshen up

    Yep. That reflects the general feeling I see in the game as well.

  • cmdrworfcmdrworf ✭✭✭✭✭
    cmdrworf wrote: »
    I'm on the other side. As I am one of the main people that runs the Do Not Airlock Checklist, I will continue to keep it updated as I do not wish to punish the community. I'm withholding my personal opinions as too much is being stated without knowing all of the facts behind it and I do not wish to join the fray until we actually have all the facts.

    Those perpetually in the middle are doomed to be the first taken out by the crossfire. Opinions are not formed in stone (or at least should not be) and should be formed as the facts come in and should therefore be malleable depending upon new facts, but you being a fence sitter is going to get you nowhere.

    Oh I have my opinions..... I just don't feel like its worth the time to spew them yet. Things are still evolving. And believe me, my comments would probably piss off a bunch of people and I'm sure I'd get Snip'd by Shan for what I'd say.
    Sir, I protest! I am NOT a merry man!
This discussion has been closed.