I personally do not see the BBBA being taken down as a punishment to the player. But rather I see the offer wall being put into the game as the punishment to the player.
A good if overused turn of phrase but kind of ridiculous in this application. Tilting Point bought Star Trek Timelines and they doubled the staff. They have to make profit for the game to continue and to pay for the extra staff. If you don’t like the offer wall just ignore it. Your information is not being sold more from the game than anything else you do on the internet if you ignore the wall or ignore the surveys in the wall, or do the surveys but use not genuine information. Everything you do on the internet generates information that is catalogued and sold. Google knows where you live even if you don’t share location data. Ads on websites are tied to what you have looked at on Amazon. If you do not like that then vote for politicians that will do something about it. The current people have gotten rid of what little internet protections that were put in place. You have much more to fear from Facebook than you do Tilting Point. Players can quit if they do not like the offer wall but they should not think they are making some grand gesture by doing so. The fewer players there are the less longevity in the game for everyone else. The fewer players the more the game will have to be monetized to compensate for their loss to keep the game profitable and running.
Thank you.
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing. ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
If one didn’t build it or pay for it, they have nothing to complain about. We were all along for the ride. Free riders don’t get to tell the driver where to go. That’s just not how the world works.
So with that logic, players that e.g. never spend a dime on this game have no right to complain about the game or TP/WRG as well, since they didn t
build the game nor pay for it? Interesting. 😉
Not so. DataCore and BBBA aren’t resources created or maintained by DB/TP/WRG, but by players who have volunteered their time and money to do it. Now they’re being attacked for withdrawing those resources, or at minimum no longer volunteering to maintain them.
If they weren’t making a political statement here, and were just saying “sorry, tired of the game, time to retire,” I doubt there’d be much animosity. Either way, they built it, they gave it to the community as a gift.
T7 is quitting and made a statement that DataCore will be taken down at the end of the month, but gave people advanced notice and also put up an advert with both the code and a help wanted sign, essentially giving somebody a month to take over to avoid a break in the resource.
The BB and additional associated resources were taken down without warning, without notice, and no attempt made that I am aware of to hand it off to anybody.
"Political statements" notwithstanding, these two shutdowns were handled very differently, and with very different levels of public reaction.
First, I would like to thank the community members that shared their hard work with the community at large. They never had to do that. They could have left it as their own fleet resource but chose to offer it to the rest of us. They have the right to withdraw it as well, and their reasoning for it is their own. They do not owe us anything but perhaps the courtesy of telling us that they will be doing it.
They have.
Second, I would like to thank @Shan for dealing with the justifiable anger of the players, and having to be the go-between with TP/WRG while clearly not being able to share additional information in the timeline that the players want.
Third, I would like to thank @eXo | SilverRose for opening her fleet tool to the player base. Again, not something anyone has to do.
Whether you are a community leader, a fleet admiral, or simply a player out there, your attitude matters. Our fleet has stayed positive throughout this, so can everyone else.
I agree completely with this. Our fleet has stayed positive (in general) throughout this. We are considering internally how we can handle the loss of these great player tools.
While TP/WRG figures out what they are going to do about this "situation" I agree that we should stay as positive as possible.
People tend to get fired up around here over stuff. And I freely admit I am one of the people who feel that losing the resources people use to improve their game, hurts players more than the game company. It's like shooting your cousin's cat because your neighbor's dog barks too loud.
However, long-term players who spend a lot each month quitting, will affect the company. So, I'm 💯% behind poor Cuddles taking one behind the ear. If that makes sense.....
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
People tend to get fired up around here over stuff. And I freely admit I am one of the people who feel that losing the resources people use to improve their game, hurts players more than the game company. It's like shooting your cousin's cat because your neighbor's dog barks too loud.
However, long-term players who spend a lot each month quitting, will affect the company. So, I'm 💯% behind poor Cuddles taking one behind the ear. If that makes sense.....
Makes perfect sense. I’m hurting over losing the resources, but I agree with the statement. So I’m joining it.
Your information is not being sold more from the game than anything else you do on the internet if you ignore the wall or ignore the surveys in the wall, or do the surveys but use not genuine information.
Can you post a source for this information?
I've not seen any official announcements from DB/TP/WRG to back up your claims, nor have I seen anything on the IronSource website that would substantiate your claim.
Shan's official statement did state: "we implemented this feature by choosing the most cautious option available: denying consent regarding the sharing of personal data by default".
But if you check the IronSource website they state "In addition, opting out may not stop data from being collected from your device or transferred for other, non-personalized advertising purposes such as optimization, reporting, frequency capping, internal operations, and fraud prevention."
Since you are asserting that if one is ignoring the wall, et al, the results are no different from other internet sites, I would very much like to read the source of your information. Thank You!
> In addition, opting out may not stop data from being collected
That's exactly the subject of our protests. IronSource is shaddy as ****, and they're not even hiding it. @Shan, ffs, talk about it with the people responsible for this offer wall
> In addition, opting out may not stop data from being collected
That's exactly the subject of our protests. IronSource is shaddy as ****, and they're not even hiding it. @Shan, ffs, talk about it with the people responsible for this offer wall
I’m sure she has, but she’s the messenger. She’s not making decisions. Her job is to explain it and pacify us. Bad spot to be in when the crap hits the fan. Probably some upper management types who don’t want to back off this even though the feedback is overwhelmingly negative, or they think they can ride it out without losing much revenue. I’ve seen this before.
I have been reading the forums for a while but now finally decided to chime in to say thank you to all the players who have contributed with creating and updating all the tools that I have managed to find and utilize in order to play STT more effectively.
It is unfortunate that some of the resource will no longer be available to me in the future but I completely understand and want to once more thank you all for the work you have done!
Your information is not being sold more from the game than anything else you do on the internet if you ignore the wall or ignore the surveys in the wall, or do the surveys but use not genuine information.
Can you post a source for this information?
I've not seen any official announcements from DB/TP/WRG to back up your claims, nor have I seen anything on the IronSource website that would substantiate your claim.
Shan's official statement did state: "we implemented this feature by choosing the most cautious option available: denying consent regarding the sharing of personal data by default".
But if you check the IronSource website they state "In addition, opting out may not stop data from being collected from your device or transferred for other, non-personalized advertising purposes such as optimization, reporting, frequency capping, internal operations, and fraud prevention."
Since you are asserting that if one is ignoring the wall, et al, the results are no different from other internet sites, I would very much like to read the source of your information. Thank You!
Are you saying that Ironsource can still collect information on any player even if they do not open the offer wall? Or did I misread that @Guest
I wanted to thank everyone who put the work into these resources. While I'm sure Shan understands this, I think it's worth noting these resources did help the game make money. They helped me transition from a casual player who'd been inactive for a long time to a more organized and competitive player. I've absolutely bought more dil and watched more ads than I would have otherwise.
Does the amount I've spent come anywhere close to what Ironsource is offering? Absolutely not. Will it change my spending going forward? I'm not sure yet. I've gotten more connected to my fleet community, so that might compensate. But the loss of these resources is a lost revenue stream for TP, even if it's only a small one
Are you saying that Ironsource can still collect information on any player even if they do not open the offer wall? Or did I misread that @Guest
Well, that is the $64K question. And why I asked Apollo for a source link about the assertion that they do not.
According to the IronSource link i referenced above, they collect data "from your device through our SDK integrated by app developers in their apps".
Does the SDK get loaded when the game starts or when the offer wall opens? For the answer to that, I would refer back to the feedback thread where someone listed the domains that get accessed when the game loads.
Your information is not being sold more from the game than anything else you do on the internet if you ignore the wall or ignore the surveys in the wall, or do the surveys but use not genuine information.
Can you post a source for this information?
I've not seen any official announcements from DB/TP/WRG to back up your claims, nor have I seen anything on the IronSource website that would substantiate your claim.
Shan's official statement did state: "we implemented this feature by choosing the most cautious option available: denying consent regarding the sharing of personal data by default".
But if you check the IronSource website they state "In addition, opting out may not stop data from being collected from your device or transferred for other, non-personalized advertising purposes such as optimization, reporting, frequency capping, internal operations, and fraud prevention."
Since you are asserting that if one is ignoring the wall, et al, the results are no different from other internet sites, I would very much like to read the source of your information. Thank You!
Are you saying that Ironsource can still collect information on any player even if they do not open the offer wall? Or did I misread that @Guest
This is the question we've been looking for a definitive answer on, so far TP haven't seen fit to confirm or deny. There is information on Ironsource's website that states that yes, they can. And that they can collect that data even if the user hasn't given their consent. Whether that information is accurate or is just an overblown marketing claim on Ironsource's part is pretty much key to this whole mess, and TP's continued silence on the matter doesn't inspire confidence.
Your information is not being sold more from the game than anything else you do on the internet if you ignore the wall or ignore the surveys in the wall, or do the surveys but use not genuine information.
Can you post a source for this information?
I've not seen any official announcements from DB/TP/WRG to back up your claims, nor have I seen anything on the IronSource website that would substantiate your claim.
Shan's official statement did state: "we implemented this feature by choosing the most cautious option available: denying consent regarding the sharing of personal data by default".
But if you check the IronSource website they state "In addition, opting out may not stop data from being collected from your device or transferred for other, non-personalized advertising purposes such as optimization, reporting, frequency capping, internal operations, and fraud prevention."
Since you are asserting that if one is ignoring the wall, et al, the results are no different from other internet sites, I would very much like to read the source of your information. Thank You!
Are you saying that Ironsource can still collect information on any player even if they do not open the offer wall? Or did I misread that @Guest
This is the question we've been looking for a definitive answer on, so far TP haven't seen fit to confirm or deny. There is information on Ironsource's website that states that yes, they can. And that they can collect that data even if the user hasn't given their consent. Whether that information is accurate or is just an overblown marketing claim on Ironsource's part is pretty much key to this whole mess, and TP's continued silence on the matter doesn't inspire confidence.
Personally, the answer to this question will determine whether I continue to play.
I’m retiring the DataCore bot and website by the end of the month. They are open source if anyone wants to pick them up.
This is partly due to the scummy direction the game is taking (adware, Offer Wall) and partly due to the project becoming a big time and money sink for me.
Live long and prosper!
As someone that plays on the PC version, I didn't think this offer wall thing would affect me, but not having access to the voyage calculator will be a huge loss, so that might mean that I'm going to have to stop playing too.
Would you please be able to post the logic used for the voyage calculator? I'm not sure I'd be able to replicate it, but I could at least give it a go.
If anyone knows of a way to convert the data extract to something usable, that would be helpful too.
I’m retiring the DataCore bot and website by the end of the month. They are open source if anyone wants to pick them up (see datacore.app for links and details).
This is partly due to the scummy direction the game is taking (adware, Offer Wall) and partly due to the project becoming a big time and money sink for me.
Live long and prosper!
Well this was a punch in the gut to wake up to. Datacore is an invaluable tool. I use it every single day. I’m not sure I can manage regular 10 hour voyages without it. Datacore will often get me to 11.5 hour voyages. I’ll miss it. Thank you for making it
Community members are coming together for Datacore, but for whoever needs it there are voyage estimators that'll help if there's a limbo. The Got Bot on Discord has a voyage estimation function. and Chewable's original voyage estimator page: https://codepen.io/somnivore/full/Nabyzw from before he retired. He made a bot version of it also if you'd like to use it. I've found I do well on voyages with these.
Your information is not being sold more from the game than anything else you do on the internet if you ignore the wall or ignore the surveys in the wall, or do the surveys but use not genuine information.
Can you post a source for this information?
I've not seen any official announcements from DB/TP/WRG to back up your claims, nor have I seen anything on the IronSource website that would substantiate your claim.
Shan's official statement did state: "we implemented this feature by choosing the most cautious option available: denying consent regarding the sharing of personal data by default".
But if you check the IronSource website they state "In addition, opting out may not stop data from being collected from your device or transferred for other, non-personalized advertising purposes such as optimization, reporting, frequency capping, internal operations, and fraud prevention."
Since you are asserting that if one is ignoring the wall, et al, the results are no different from other internet sites, I would very much like to read the source of your information. Thank You!
Are you saying that Ironsource can still collect information on any player even if they do not open the offer wall? Or did I misread that @Guest
I understood the official statement as: "Ironsource provided the ads before already and collected various data, but they cannot collect additional data through the wall if you do not actively provide informations." I am just not sure if data was only provided when watching ads or with the pure implementation of the ad offers. Anyway it basically sucked already before the wall arrived but noone cared.
On topic: Thanks for the tools while they were available, they were absolutely awesome. I will miss them, but I fully understand you taking them down, no matter your motivation, be it the wall, money or grown disinterest in the game. Farewell & maybe we will see again sooner or later.
Wir, die Mirror Tribbles [MiT] haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase und täglich 700 ISM.
Thank you for the resources you provided! I hope the best for you in the direction you move forward.
As for all the people complaining about losing these resources, grow up! If this is what's rocked your world, then I hope you're nowhere near my location considering all the things going on around the world.
I'm on the other side. As I am one of the main people that runs the Do Not Airlock Checklist, I will continue to keep it updated as I do not wish to punish the community. I'm withholding my personal opinions as too much is being stated without knowing all of the facts behind it and I do not wish to join the fray until we actually have all the facts.
Those perpetually in the middle are doomed to be the first taken out by the crossfire. Opinions are not formed in stone (or at least should not be) and should be formed as the facts come in and should therefore be malleable depending upon new facts, but you being a fence sitter is going to get you nowhere.
"Don't make this hard on us,
I will miss you,
If you just go away"
- Dave Mustaine (Megadeth)
For the most part I've manged to keep quiet about this this last week but this seems like a good opportunity to express how this all makes me feel, and perhaps add a different perspective for the people going after the BB people for "punishing the players".
They spent countless hours and countless money over many years creating tools that many people used to varying degrees, but over time those tools shifted from pure luxury to something closer to necessity for a lot of folks (not me personally, I feel I need to make this distinction). These tools are like high speed internet, at first they were just nice to have but as more and more of daily life began to rely on them, they became more essential for daily life.
So in those terms while yes the BB folks are free to do with these tools what they please, the people who grew to depend on these resources are now feeling betrayed while going through withdrawal, and it is understandable to me that they may react harshly and say things in a harsh way. Not excusing it, but I understand why it is happening.
The BB folks were out front all week calling attention to this issue, using their well-deserved/well-earned elevated status to shine a spotlight on it. The heroes of the BB were taking a stand, saying they would be quitting the game in protest of this move, and the people were sad, but they understood.
But then they didn't quit.
After many dozens of forum posts and posts on other platforms about this and "Talk"ing all week about how they were ending their podcast, it hasn't really happened. The podcast may be over, but the comments and appearances continue.
I do not believe the BB people understood just how important they were to the community, how hard many people would take their sudden departure, and how much damage they are repeatedly doing to the community every time they resume their never-ending farewell tour. They are like the ghosts of martyrs who fell on their swords publicly but then returned to give their own eulogies, preside over their own funerals, and lead their own memorial services. It is emotionally painful for people to see this happen because dozens of times already we have begun to get closure and heal our mental wounds only to have those wounds forcibly ripped open again and again by the returning ghosts. Over enough time, this is the recipe for slowly turning understanding into resentment.
Let us process your loss, or return to us. This limbo state of indefinite termination is painful for everyone, as evidenced by the emotionally charged comments in this thread and many others.
The "flaw", I find, in this logic is, that nothing is "set in stone"... Yet.
If TP actually does reverse course, then the BB, and the DC app, could come back.
Currently, we are all in "limbo". Awaiting the final judgement of... Umm.. a company with our "best" interests at heart. Time will tell what their ultimate decision is, but the BB crew is still fighting for what they believe in. That makes 100% sense to me.
1) This was, and continues to be, very badly handled by TP. As a long standing customer who is awaiting proper updates to the game this smacks of a waste of development time. They may have doubled their staff, but I'm going to need to see some sort of road map for their development for this to impress me after seeing what they've been spending their recent development time on.
2) If the tools that private people build are so important to everyday play of the game then TP should be doing it. If those tools are then withdrawn it *will* hurt TP. Those of you suffering withdrawal are angry at the wrong people. This is all TPs fault, regardless of the current situation. Players have been providing you quality of life that was unpaid for and the real benefactors were TP/DB who happily took all your money for only delivering a part of your player experience.
3) This situation has blown up at least partly because many in the community have been waiting a very long time for this game to freshen up, and they have one foot already out the door. It's easy to walk away when there's not much keeping you here. The game is in a *very* bad place right now. It's stale, the company is very poor at building any enthusiasm for the game, and the player base is in constant and noticeable decline.
I reckon this game is dead man walking right now. Anyone who spends money on it is taking a big gamble. Again, it's TPs responsibility to turn this around. They can either do it by stepping down into the gutter and using every dirty monetisation trick in the book, or they can actually freshen up the game and add some new systems to keep the existing player base spending money. The evidence we've seen so far is that they are going for the former rather than the latter. Convince me different Tilting Point. If they can't do that, everyone should walk away.
Here's a question for the protesters, whether it's one of our intrepid player-made resource creators, "whales", or even VIP 0 F2P players refusing to play or reinstall the app on their phones. What conditions would need to be met for you to feel this has been satisfactorily addressed enough for you to feel comfortable with resuming? To be clear, I'm not asking anyone to open negotiations here and commit to resuming if x, y, and z were done by TP. I'm just asking what x, y, and z are that would make you feel comfortable about resuming?
I ask because I think a lot of us are upset but don't really know what would be "enough" to make it right. It's easier to point out what the problem is than to identify the most satisfying solution, and harder still if, like me, you don't speak tech and/or legalese well enough to know what those conditions should be. Most of us don't have created player-made resources to take down in protest, so we can't follow your lead on that. But we can get behind a clear rubric to measure TP's response and follow-up(s) that we may not understand well enough to set on our own.
1) This was, and continues to be, very badly handled by TP. As a long standing customer who is awaiting proper updates to the game this smacks of a waste of development time. They may have doubled their staff, but I'm going to need to see some sort of road map for their development for this to impress me after seeing what they've been spending their recent development time on.
2) If the tools that private people build are so important to everyday play of the game then TP should be doing it. If those tools are then withdrawn it *will* hurt TP. Those of you suffering withdrawal are angry at the wrong people. This is all TPs fault, regardless of the current situation. Players have been providing you quality of life that was unpaid for and the real benefactors were TP/DB who happily took all your money for only delivering a part of your player experience.
3) This situation has blown up at least partly because many in the community have been waiting a very long time for this game to freshen up, and they have one foot already out the door. It's easy to walk away when there's not much keeping you here. The game is in a *very* bad place right now. It's stale, the company is very poor at building any enthusiasm for the game, and the player base is in constant and noticeable decline.
I reckon this game is dead man walking right now. Anyone who spends money on it is taking a big gamble. Again, it's TPs responsibility to turn this around. They can either do it by stepping down into the gutter and using every dirty monetisation trick in the book, or they can actually freshen up the game and add some new systems to keep the existing player base spending money. The evidence we've seen so far is that they are going for the former rather than the latter. Convince me different Tilting Point. If they can't do that, everyone should walk away.
This.
Ten Forward Loungers - Give Your Best, Get Our Best!
Visit us on discord to find out more: https://discord.gg/hg8ZRyn/
Here's a question for the protesters, whether it's one of our intrepid player-made resource creators, "whales", or even VIP 0 F2P players refusing to play or reinstall the app on their phones. What conditions would need to be met for you to feel this has been satisfactorily addressed enough for you to feel comfortable with resuming? To be clear, I'm not asking anyone to open negotiations here and commit to resuming if x, y, and z were done by TP. I'm just asking what x, y, and z are that would make you feel comfortable about resuming?
I ask because I think a lot of us are upset but don't really know what would be "enough" to make it right. It's easier to point out what the problem is than to identify the most satisfying solution, and harder still if, like me, you don't speak tech and/or legalese well enough to know what those conditions should be. Most of us don't have created player-made resources to take down in protest, so we can't follow your lead on that. But we can get behind a clear rubric to measure TP's response and follow-up(s) that we may not understand well enough to set on our own.
For me, it's at the very least being told that they are working on a system as revolutionary as Voyages was. I expect others will want to see the offer wall removed from the game, and I'd certainly be happy to see that too, but I will suffer it if there are to going to be actual game improvements.
In truth I expect it's all too little too late now. I am guessing that Tilting Points intention when they took over this game was to use it as a test bed for monetisation schemes that they can then offer to sell other games as 'solutions'. Again, I think this because this latest development and the lack of other substantial development is the evidence we have. If Tilting Point want to convince me otherwise I'm all ears.
Here's a question for the protesters, whether it's one of our intrepid player-made resource creators, "whales", or even VIP 0 F2P players refusing to play or reinstall the app on their phones. What conditions would need to be met for you to feel this has been satisfactorily addressed enough for you to feel comfortable with resuming? To be clear, I'm not asking anyone to open negotiations here and commit to resuming if x, y, and z were done by TP. I'm just asking what x, y, and z are that would make you feel comfortable about resuming?
I ask because I think a lot of us are upset but don't really know what would be "enough" to make it right. It's easier to point out what the problem is than to identify the most satisfying solution, and harder still if, like me, you don't speak tech and/or legalese well enough to know what those conditions should be. Most of us don't have created player-made resources to take down in protest, so we can't follow your lead on that. But we can get behind a clear rubric to measure TP's response and follow-up(s) that we may not understand well enough to set on our own.
Excellent question. I don't know if this is a good answer, but: for me, the short term answer would be, when the BB team, and datacore team, are satisfied. They have been clear about what they want and I stand behind them.
The long term answer would be, for TP/WRG to get rid of the offer wall, as run by IronSource, and make their own offer wall. Cut out the middle man. STT has a LOT of fans that want to support the game. However, it is clear that many will not, so long as the offer wall (in it's current form) exists.
Ten Forward Loungers - Give Your Best, Get Our Best!
Visit us on discord to find out more: https://discord.gg/hg8ZRyn/
Here's a question for the protesters, whether it's one of our intrepid player-made resource creators, "whales", or even VIP 0 F2P players refusing to play or reinstall the app on their phones. What conditions would need to be met for you to feel this has been satisfactorily addressed enough for you to feel comfortable with resuming? To be clear, I'm not asking anyone to open negotiations here and commit to resuming if x, y, and z were done by TP. I'm just asking what x, y, and z are that would make you feel comfortable about resuming?
I ask because I think a lot of us are upset but don't really know what would be "enough" to make it right. It's easier to point out what the problem is than to identify the most satisfying solution, and harder still if, like me, you don't speak tech and/or legalese well enough to know what those conditions should be. Most of us don't have created player-made resources to take down in protest, so we can't follow your lead on that. But we can get behind a clear rubric to measure TP's response and follow-up(s) that we may not understand well enough to set on our own.
The bare minimum for me to stick around long term is an affirmative and resolute confirmation that IronSource is only collecting data from us when actively engaged in the offer wall. If they are collecting outside of the wall, it needs to be restricted to only the times when ads are being watched. If simply logging into the game is enough to trigger their collection scheme, that is a serious problem.
What I would like is for the wall to be managed by a trustworthy partner rather than a sleazy scam outfit. A new event type. More communication from WRG about what’s in the pipeline for the future - other than Ben’s appearance on Timelines Talks a few weeks back, all of the major announcements about features or bug fixes have been basically last-minute surprises rather than something we could be building buzz for over a month or more.
What I want most of all is to be able to trust in TP again. The big things like Demerit Packs or the Wall are bad enough, but it’s the little things that are maybe more concerning. Chief among them: having three Homesteader Janeways available from achievements plus a limited-time pack on the first day her achievements were introduced (rather than in the last few days before they expired), as opposed to Bones being available at 4/5* from achievements plus a $10 LTO on day one. “DoN’t CoMpLaiN, sHe’S sTiLL aVaiLaBLe At 3/5*!!!” doesn’t change the fact that getting Janeway immortal is going to require a lot more spending on low-drop-rate packs, thus turning what could have been a helpful tool to show appreciation while driving engagement into a game of roulette.
Get rid of IronSource and the offer wall. I play the game on an iPad so anything there would be those lousy surveys which I refuse to spend my time on even by putting in fake answers and a junk email address.
I’m hanging around to see what more of an answer we get from TP/WRG but I’m not too hopeful it’ll be anything of substance that would make me comfortable continuing on. The answers to questions asked here in the forum should have been at the ready for TP to respond instead it takes several days ... I’m guessing it’ll take at least as long for the next message to be delivered.
I'm on the other side. As I am one of the main people that runs the Do Not Airlock Checklist, I will continue to keep it updated as I do not wish to punish the community. I'm withholding my personal opinions as too much is being stated without knowing all of the facts behind it and I do not wish to join the fray until we actually have all the facts.
Those perpetually in the middle are doomed to be the first taken out by the crossfire. Opinions are not formed in stone (or at least should not be) and should be formed as the facts come in and should therefore be malleable depending upon new facts, but you being a fence sitter is going to get you nowhere.
Oh I have my opinions..... I just don't feel like its worth the time to spew them yet. Things are still evolving. And believe me, my comments would probably piss off a bunch of people and I'm sure I'd get Snip'd by Shan for what I'd say.
Comments
Thank you.
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
T7 is quitting and made a statement that DataCore will be taken down at the end of the month, but gave people advanced notice and also put up an advert with both the code and a help wanted sign, essentially giving somebody a month to take over to avoid a break in the resource.
The BB and additional associated resources were taken down without warning, without notice, and no attempt made that I am aware of to hand it off to anybody.
"Political statements" notwithstanding, these two shutdowns were handled very differently, and with very different levels of public reaction.
They have.
Second, I would like to thank @Shan for dealing with the justifiable anger of the players, and having to be the go-between with TP/WRG while clearly not being able to share additional information in the timeline that the players want.
Third, I would like to thank @eXo | SilverRose for opening her fleet tool to the player base. Again, not something anyone has to do.
I agree completely with this. Our fleet has stayed positive (in general) throughout this. We are considering internally how we can handle the loss of these great player tools.
While TP/WRG figures out what they are going to do about this "situation" I agree that we should stay as positive as possible.
However, long-term players who spend a lot each month quitting, will affect the company. So, I'm 💯% behind poor Cuddles taking one behind the ear. If that makes sense.....
Makes perfect sense. I’m hurting over losing the resources, but I agree with the statement. So I’m joining it.
Can you post a source for this information?
I've not seen any official announcements from DB/TP/WRG to back up your claims, nor have I seen anything on the IronSource website that would substantiate your claim.
Shan's official statement did state: "we implemented this feature by choosing the most cautious option available: denying consent regarding the sharing of personal data by default".
But if you check the IronSource website they state "In addition, opting out may not stop data from being collected from your device or transferred for other, non-personalized advertising purposes such as optimization, reporting, frequency capping, internal operations, and fraud prevention."
The source for my information is:
https://developers.ironsrc.com/ironsource-mobile/air/ironsource-mobile-privacy-policy/
Since you are asserting that if one is ignoring the wall, et al, the results are no different from other internet sites, I would very much like to read the source of your information. Thank You!
That's exactly the subject of our protests. IronSource is shaddy as ****, and they're not even hiding it. @Shan, ffs, talk about it with the people responsible for this offer wall
I’m sure she has, but she’s the messenger. She’s not making decisions. Her job is to explain it and pacify us. Bad spot to be in when the crap hits the fan. Probably some upper management types who don’t want to back off this even though the feedback is overwhelmingly negative, or they think they can ride it out without losing much revenue. I’ve seen this before.
It is unfortunate that some of the resource will no longer be available to me in the future but I completely understand and want to once more thank you all for the work you have done!
Are you saying that Ironsource can still collect information on any player even if they do not open the offer wall? Or did I misread that @Guest
Does the amount I've spent come anywhere close to what Ironsource is offering? Absolutely not. Will it change my spending going forward? I'm not sure yet. I've gotten more connected to my fleet community, so that might compensate. But the loss of these resources is a lost revenue stream for TP, even if it's only a small one
Well, that is the $64K question. And why I asked Apollo for a source link about the assertion that they do not.
According to the IronSource link i referenced above, they collect data "from your device through our SDK integrated by app developers in their apps".
Does the SDK get loaded when the game starts or when the offer wall opens? For the answer to that, I would refer back to the feedback thread where someone listed the domains that get accessed when the game loads.
This is the question we've been looking for a definitive answer on, so far TP haven't seen fit to confirm or deny. There is information on Ironsource's website that states that yes, they can. And that they can collect that data even if the user hasn't given their consent. Whether that information is accurate or is just an overblown marketing claim on Ironsource's part is pretty much key to this whole mess, and TP's continued silence on the matter doesn't inspire confidence.
Personally, the answer to this question will determine whether I continue to play.
Community members are coming together for Datacore, but for whoever needs it there are voyage estimators that'll help if there's a limbo. The Got Bot on Discord has a voyage estimation function. and Chewable's original voyage estimator page: https://codepen.io/somnivore/full/Nabyzw from before he retired. He made a bot version of it also if you'd like to use it. I've found I do well on voyages with these.
~· Fly with the Subspace Eddies! ·~
I understood the official statement as: "Ironsource provided the ads before already and collected various data, but they cannot collect additional data through the wall if you do not actively provide informations." I am just not sure if data was only provided when watching ads or with the pure implementation of the ad offers. Anyway it basically sucked already before the wall arrived but noone cared.
On topic: Thanks for the tools while they were available, they were absolutely awesome. I will miss them, but I fully understand you taking them down, no matter your motivation, be it the wall, money or grown disinterest in the game. Farewell & maybe we will see again sooner or later.
As for all the people complaining about losing these resources, grow up! If this is what's rocked your world, then I hope you're nowhere near my location considering all the things going on around the world.
Those perpetually in the middle are doomed to be the first taken out by the crossfire. Opinions are not formed in stone (or at least should not be) and should be formed as the facts come in and should therefore be malleable depending upon new facts, but you being a fence sitter is going to get you nowhere.
The "flaw", I find, in this logic is, that nothing is "set in stone"... Yet.
If TP actually does reverse course, then the BB, and the DC app, could come back.
Currently, we are all in "limbo". Awaiting the final judgement of... Umm.. a company with our "best" interests at heart. Time will tell what their ultimate decision is, but the BB crew is still fighting for what they believe in. That makes 100% sense to me.
1) This was, and continues to be, very badly handled by TP. As a long standing customer who is awaiting proper updates to the game this smacks of a waste of development time. They may have doubled their staff, but I'm going to need to see some sort of road map for their development for this to impress me after seeing what they've been spending their recent development time on.
2) If the tools that private people build are so important to everyday play of the game then TP should be doing it. If those tools are then withdrawn it *will* hurt TP. Those of you suffering withdrawal are angry at the wrong people. This is all TPs fault, regardless of the current situation. Players have been providing you quality of life that was unpaid for and the real benefactors were TP/DB who happily took all your money for only delivering a part of your player experience.
3) This situation has blown up at least partly because many in the community have been waiting a very long time for this game to freshen up, and they have one foot already out the door. It's easy to walk away when there's not much keeping you here. The game is in a *very* bad place right now. It's stale, the company is very poor at building any enthusiasm for the game, and the player base is in constant and noticeable decline.
I reckon this game is dead man walking right now. Anyone who spends money on it is taking a big gamble. Again, it's TPs responsibility to turn this around. They can either do it by stepping down into the gutter and using every dirty monetisation trick in the book, or they can actually freshen up the game and add some new systems to keep the existing player base spending money. The evidence we've seen so far is that they are going for the former rather than the latter. Convince me different Tilting Point. If they can't do that, everyone should walk away.
I ask because I think a lot of us are upset but don't really know what would be "enough" to make it right. It's easier to point out what the problem is than to identify the most satisfying solution, and harder still if, like me, you don't speak tech and/or legalese well enough to know what those conditions should be. Most of us don't have created player-made resources to take down in protest, so we can't follow your lead on that. But we can get behind a clear rubric to measure TP's response and follow-up(s) that we may not understand well enough to set on our own.
This.
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For me, it's at the very least being told that they are working on a system as revolutionary as Voyages was. I expect others will want to see the offer wall removed from the game, and I'd certainly be happy to see that too, but I will suffer it if there are to going to be actual game improvements.
In truth I expect it's all too little too late now. I am guessing that Tilting Points intention when they took over this game was to use it as a test bed for monetisation schemes that they can then offer to sell other games as 'solutions'. Again, I think this because this latest development and the lack of other substantial development is the evidence we have. If Tilting Point want to convince me otherwise I'm all ears.
Excellent question. I don't know if this is a good answer, but: for me, the short term answer would be, when the BB team, and datacore team, are satisfied. They have been clear about what they want and I stand behind them.
The long term answer would be, for TP/WRG to get rid of the offer wall, as run by IronSource, and make their own offer wall. Cut out the middle man. STT has a LOT of fans that want to support the game. However, it is clear that many will not, so long as the offer wall (in it's current form) exists.
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The bare minimum for me to stick around long term is an affirmative and resolute confirmation that IronSource is only collecting data from us when actively engaged in the offer wall. If they are collecting outside of the wall, it needs to be restricted to only the times when ads are being watched. If simply logging into the game is enough to trigger their collection scheme, that is a serious problem.
What I would like is for the wall to be managed by a trustworthy partner rather than a sleazy scam outfit. A new event type. More communication from WRG about what’s in the pipeline for the future - other than Ben’s appearance on Timelines Talks a few weeks back, all of the major announcements about features or bug fixes have been basically last-minute surprises rather than something we could be building buzz for over a month or more.
What I want most of all is to be able to trust in TP again. The big things like Demerit Packs or the Wall are bad enough, but it’s the little things that are maybe more concerning. Chief among them: having three Homesteader Janeways available from achievements plus a limited-time pack on the first day her achievements were introduced (rather than in the last few days before they expired), as opposed to Bones being available at 4/5* from achievements plus a $10 LTO on day one. “DoN’t CoMpLaiN, sHe’S sTiLL aVaiLaBLe At 3/5*!!!” doesn’t change the fact that getting Janeway immortal is going to require a lot more spending on low-drop-rate packs, thus turning what could have been a helpful tool to show appreciation while driving engagement into a game of roulette.
I’m hanging around to see what more of an answer we get from TP/WRG but I’m not too hopeful it’ll be anything of substance that would make me comfortable continuing on. The answers to questions asked here in the forum should have been at the ready for TP to respond instead it takes several days ... I’m guessing it’ll take at least as long for the next message to be delivered.
Yep. That reflects the general feeling I see in the game as well.
Oh I have my opinions..... I just don't feel like its worth the time to spew them yet. Things are still evolving. And believe me, my comments would probably piss off a bunch of people and I'm sure I'd get Snip'd by Shan for what I'd say.