To be honest, after re-reading the whole Lenara thread and how it was closed, I wish they didn't do a Pride campaign at all.
I don't need companies to publicly advocate for my community or for other ethical issues in order to use their products and services, but when they do, I want to believe that they actually care.
It doesn't really feel that way in this case.
Maybe they will come with announcement like ... "Half the money made from the campaign purchases will be donated to an NGO that supports the LGBTQ community."
That would be classy.
I don't care about that. But if this is a topic that matters to them then I would have expected them to:
1) Take a stance on it (and I'm not talking about the choice of Lenara as a legendary)
2) Not shut down the conversation at the first best occasion, just because there is one person trying to derail it, when there have been way nastier discussions on this forum that kept going for days.
I am curious about this from a marketing standpoint. Some, possibly a vocal minority but also possibly a representative number of people, have expressed disapproval. Some for not doing this well, others for using the theme at all. Still others disapprove for game reasons, but that seems to happen every month.
I wonder if the company would have been better off making the IDIC announcement, but omitting its connection to pride month. Those who are passionate would see it as a nod. Those who are oblivious, just think it's some Trek thing chosen randomly. Those who attack the company from either side can be answered with, "Look, we just make a game. This was a cool theme at the heart of the Star Trek franchise. We try to make content that people are happy to purchase. We will consider your input for future campaigns because we value customer satisfaction." They did use the latter part, which is where I got it. Where I see the problem was that they had to go on the defensive because they did not leave themselves a way out with the first part.
Instead, as mentioned above, it seems like someone kicked a hornet nest. That is generally bad for business, as I understand. I am happy to report that my fleet has handled it well and did not get political about the issue. That's sort of a policy of ours. The world has enough turmoil out there. The fleet is a haven from that. The game normally is too.
We'll never see numbers, of course, but as I said, I am curious all the same from the marketing standpoint. The data would only be useful if sales remain steady though. There is a swath who won't buy because it is one of the weakest legendaries in the game. And if there are fewer purchases, then we will not know if it is card quality or some emotional reason. But if there are the same or more purchases, then the stance taken by the company was a wise decision.
I personally don't have any issue with the theme or with the choice of Lenara. I don't even have an issue with companies using the LGBT+ community for pure marketing strategies (visibility is still better than nothing).
However, if the latter is the case, I at least expect them to be willing to leave a space for conversations on this topic and to publicly take the side of the LGBT+ community and defend their choice to represent them.
I feel like the opposite has happened in the closed thread.
That being said, I would be just as fine with it if they never touched the topic. I just don't like the idea of a company benefitting from an LGBT+ themed marketing, while simultaneously telling us that they don't really care about what we think or what others think about us and that they'd rather not have those conversations at all. Because even though that wasn't said explicitly (and maybe wasn't meant that way) it's the messages that I got out of it.
Emperor BD, I feel as though the original conversation in the thread applauding the idea but not the specific choice of that character to represent Pride Month was a conversation that surely could have continued. But when a few players expressed they didn't want to have any such "agenda forced upon them" (to paraphrase that feeling, not quoting anyone directly), I feel like continued conversation with the more vocal folks on the opposing side of that argument would not have solved anything. And to be frank, I don't think either side would have been completely blameless, nor completely at fault. When such subjects come up, hearing opposing views feels like a personal attack (again, for people on both sides), making it very difficult to refrain from getting aggravated, which in turn makes it more likely that things will be said which aren't conducive to civil discourse.
And so I think the thread was closed proactively, before things devolved too much. Minds which hold such beliefs one way or the other can't really be changed by words alone, imo. Personal experiences and one's deeply felt emotions make for strong convictions that repeated debate has limited, if not zero, effect upon. Also, to your other concern, Shan's final comment on the subject came across to me, anyway, as very much defending the choices that were made.
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing. ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
The campaign is always worth it. I don't have Kahn and this will let me finish Stamets too. With the frequency Disco crew take bonus, I'll take any immorted from there I can. Plus, I sense a rise in the number of Trill, based on the preview for Disco 3. They both may be useful by the end of the year.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
Emperor BD, I feel as though the original conversation in the thread applauding the idea but not the specific choice of that character to represent Pride Month was a conversation that surely could have continued. But when a few players expressed they didn't want to have any such "agenda forced upon them" (to paraphrase that feeling, not quoting anyone directly), I feel like continued conversation with the more vocal folks on the opposing side of that argument would not have solved anything. And to be frank, I don't think either side would have been completely blameless, nor completely at fault. When such subjects come up, hearing opposing views feels like a personal attack (again, for people on both sides), making it very difficult to refrain from getting aggravated, which in turn makes it more likely that things will be said which aren't conducive to civil discourse.
And so I think the thread was closed proactively, before things devolved too much. Minds which hold such beliefs one way or the other can't really be changed by words alone, imo. Personal experiences and one's deeply felt emotions make for strong convictions that repeated debate has limited, if not zero, effect upon. Also, to your other concern, Shan's final comment on the subject came across to me, anyway, as very much defending the choices that were made.
The problem is that if a player who has already written things like "a person claiming to be trans is like a human claiming to be a chicken" on this same forum highjacks a thread that (mostly) LGBT+ players use to discuss the Pride Month campaign to incessantly repeat how he doesn't want a Pride campaign at all (instead of just creating his own thread for that) and the official reaction from the admins is to close down the thread, that doesn't feel like they're supporting the community that they just used for their marketing.
Again, if their official policy on this is "all opinions are the same, we don't like politics, let's not discuss any of the things happening in the real world on this forum" that's fine. I think my fleet currently has an unspoken rule of that kind and it works. The Timelines Discord chat has an official rule of that kind, where you get a warning if you even just mention a politician's name. And it works very well (that's probably one of the most welcoming and peaceful online communities I've ever been part of).
But then they shouldn't do a Pride Month campaign. Because if they do, they're sort of implying that they support the LGBT+ community and their cause and in this case I expect them to at least try to live up to that statement.
The problem is that if a player who has already written things like "a person claiming to be trans is like a human claiming to be a chicken" on this same forum highjacks a thread that (mostly) LGBT+ players use to discuss the Pride Month campaign to incessantly repeat how he doesn't want a Pride campaign at all (instead of just creating his own thread for that) and the official reaction from the admins is to close down the thread, that doesn't feel like they're supporting the community that they just used for their marketing.
Again, if their official policy on this is "all opinions are the same, we don't like politics, let's not discuss any of the things happening in the real world on this forum" that's fine. I think my fleet currently has an unspoken rule of that kind and it works. The Timelines Discord chat has an official rule of that kind, where you get a warning if you even just mention a politician's name. And it works very well (that's probably one of the most welcoming and peaceful online communities I've ever been part of).
But then they shouldn't do a Pride Month campaign. Because if they do, they're sort of implying that they support the LGBT+ community and their cause and in this case I expect them to at least try to live up to that statement.
Thing is, LGBTQ+ is a complex subject, with a lot of factions within and without pursuing agendas not necessarily coming from a positive place for diversity as a whole.
I'm not sure this forum is suitable for those debates, beyond combatting ignorance.
Someone wishing to proclaim "a person claiming to be trans is like a human claiming to be a chicken" is entitled to their view, they're not entitled to have it unchallenged though as it comes from a position of ignorance.
But, saying that, educating them may not change their mind. People like to hold on to their safety blankets, usually to protect themselves from some deep seated issues and insecurities (not necessarily being in any closets either). So at some point you've got to accept that and move on.
And it's not just people outside the LGBTQ+ community, inside there is plenty of fear and ignorance too - witness how hostile some lesbian groups are to trans, and how some trans groups are hostile to any studies that don't agree with them.
So, it's good to see TP supporting Pride, but equally I get why debates would be clamped down on. There's a difference between a company taking a stance, either from a genuinely moral position or virtue signalling (I am hoping TP are doing the former) and allowing varying opinions and deep seated beliefs tear apart an online community.
The internet is full of places where if you disagree with someone, you're now the "enemy" no matter what else you may agree on, let's not make this place another one of those where it's all or nothing factions squabbling endlessly.
The problem is that if a player who has already written things like "a person claiming to be trans is like a human claiming to be a chicken" on this same forum highjacks a thread that (mostly) LGBT+ players use to discuss the Pride Month campaign to incessantly repeat how he doesn't want a Pride campaign at all (instead of just creating his own thread for that) and the official reaction from the admins is to close down the thread, that doesn't feel like they're supporting the community that they just used for their marketing.
Again, if their official policy on this is "all opinions are the same, we don't like politics, let's not discuss any of the things happening in the real world on this forum" that's fine. I think my fleet currently has an unspoken rule of that kind and it works. The Timelines Discord chat has an official rule of that kind, where you get a warning if you even just mention a politician's name. And it works very well (that's probably one of the most welcoming and peaceful online communities I've ever been part of).
But then they shouldn't do a Pride Month campaign. Because if they do, they're sort of implying that they support the LGBT+ community and their cause and in this case I expect them to at least try to live up to that statement.
Thing is, LGBTQ+ is a complex subject, with a lot of factions within and without pursuing agendas not necessarily coming from a positive place for diversity as a whole.
I'm not sure this forum is suitable for those debates, beyond combatting ignorance.
Someone wishing to proclaim "a person claiming to be trans is like a human claiming to be a chicken" is entitled to their view, they're not entitled to have it unchallenged though as it comes from a position of ignorance.
But, saying that, educating them may not change their mind. People like to hold on to their safety blankets, usually to protect themselves from some deep seated issues and insecurities (not necessarily being in any closets either). So at some point you've got to accept that and move on.
And it's not just people outside the LGBTQ+ community, inside there is plenty of fear and ignorance too - witness how hostile some lesbian groups are to trans, and how some trans groups are hostile to any studies that don't agree with them.
So, it's good to see TP supporting Pride, but equally I get why debates would be clamped down on. There's a difference between a company taking a stance, either from a genuinely moral position or virtue signalling (I am hoping TP are doing the former) and allowing varying opinions and deep seated beliefs tear apart an online community.
The internet is full of places where if you disagree with someone, you're now the "enemy" no matter what else you may agree on, let's not make this place another one of those where it's all or nothing factions squabbling endlessly.
I'm not debating any of the things you say (even though I don't completely agree with all of them).
But I stand by my point that if a company uses my community for marketing purposes, then I expect them to "give something back" by publicly standing on our side and allowing us some space to have conversations on this topic.
Otherwise they shouldn't use us for their marketing.
Then again, I also accept the positions of those who say that any kind of representation and acceptance is better than no representation and acceptance at all.
But I would wish for something better than that in 2020.
The problem is that if a player who has already written things like "a person claiming to be trans is like a human claiming to be a chicken" on this same forum highjacks a thread that (mostly) LGBT+ players use to discuss the Pride Month campaign to incessantly repeat how he doesn't want a Pride campaign at all (instead of just creating his own thread for that) and the official reaction from the admins is to close down the thread, that doesn't feel like they're supporting the community that they just used for their marketing.
Again, if their official policy on this is "all opinions are the same, we don't like politics, let's not discuss any of the things happening in the real world on this forum" that's fine. I think my fleet currently has an unspoken rule of that kind and it works. The Timelines Discord chat has an official rule of that kind, where you get a warning if you even just mention a politician's name. And it works very well (that's probably one of the most welcoming and peaceful online communities I've ever been part of).
But then they shouldn't do a Pride Month campaign. Because if they do, they're sort of implying that they support the LGBT+ community and their cause and in this case I expect them to at least try to live up to that statement.
Thing is, LGBTQ+ is a complex subject, with a lot of factions within and without pursuing agendas not necessarily coming from a positive place for diversity as a whole.
I'm not sure this forum is suitable for those debates, beyond combatting ignorance.
Someone wishing to proclaim "a person claiming to be trans is like a human claiming to be a chicken" is entitled to their view, they're not entitled to have it unchallenged though as it comes from a position of ignorance.
But, saying that, educating them may not change their mind. People like to hold on to their safety blankets, usually to protect themselves from some deep seated issues and insecurities (not necessarily being in any closets either). So at some point you've got to accept that and move on.
And it's not just people outside the LGBTQ+ community, inside there is plenty of fear and ignorance too - witness how hostile some lesbian groups are to trans, and how some trans groups are hostile to any studies that don't agree with them.
So, it's good to see TP supporting Pride, but equally I get why debates would be clamped down on. There's a difference between a company taking a stance, either from a genuinely moral position or virtue signalling (I am hoping TP are doing the former) and allowing varying opinions and deep seated beliefs tear apart an online community.
The internet is full of places where if you disagree with someone, you're now the "enemy" no matter what else you may agree on, let's not make this place another one of those where it's all or nothing factions squabbling endlessly.
I'm not debating any of the things you say (even though I don't completely agree with all of them).
But I stand by my point that if a company uses my community for marketing purposes, then I expect them to "give something back" by publicly standing on our side and allowing us some space to have conversations on this topic.
Otherwise they shouldn't use us for their marketing.
Then again, I also accept the positions of those who say that any kind of representation and acceptance is better than no representation and acceptance at all.
But I would wish for something better than that in 2020.
I was with you until that last line.
Have you met 2020?
I'm not debating any of the things you say (even though I don't completely agree with all of them).
But I stand by my point that if a company uses my community for marketing purposes, then I expect them to "give something back" by publicly standing on our side and allowing us some space to have conversations on this topic.
Otherwise they shouldn't use us for their marketing.
Then again, I also accept the positions of those who say that any kind of representation and acceptance is better than no representation and acceptance at all.
But I would wish for something better than that in 2020.
It's not about what you, or any other individual, debates, it's about the forum community as a whole.
LGBTQ+ debates aren't like debates about if the earth is flat, or if gravity is a thing, they're very nuanced, open to misunderstanding and there's an awful lot of opinion and high dudgeon both inside and outside the LGBTQ+ community over things.
In a quiet debate debate between a couple of people over a nice pint, that can lead to raised voices, where ruffled feathers can easily be smoothed. In an online forum? Lines get drawn, trenches get dug and resentment snowballs and it can be months before grudges fade.
To paraphrase Men In Black, an individual is smart, but a group are dumb, panicky animals. And I like to think social media has proven that to be as much the case online as it is in real life.
So, having the debates in here is going to be more work than poor Shan needs, and likely harmful to the community as a whole.
And IMO, it's not about any kind of representation, it's about where it's appropriate.
This forum is mostly light and frothy, there are plenty of spots more suited to debate on heavier material than the artwork of a card, or what cards are in the next campaign.
Beyond the odd need to clamp down on an ignorant remark, I don't think this forum needs that on any subject.
Edit: Please don't take this as me saying you shouldn't be out and proud on here, anything but, but that actual deeper debates are probably not the best here. And I've taken part in some in the past.
Again, in my opinion, if they're not willing to openly take a position in favor of the LGBT+ community and they're not willing to give us a little bit of space (and time) on this forum, then they should not use us for their marketing.
@Prime Lorca [10FH]
I have, I'm thinking about hibernating for the rest of it
I think our views on this @Emperor Borg Drone share a great deal of overlap. That now closed thread spawned, caught fire, and was shut down all while I slept, and several comments were apparently deleted. As a result, I cannot speak to what all was said, nor can I claim to have really read too much that survived because going in knowing comments were disabled made it impossible for me to engage, because I knew if I read too deeply I'd WANT to engage. That was disappointing.
@Prime Lorca [10FH]
I have, I'm thinking about hibernating for the rest of it
If you live in the US, please don't. Everyone needs to get out and vote.
I don't, but I agree with you. The next elections where I live will probably be just as divisive, so it's more important than ever that people actually take the time to make a choice and vote.
I think our views on this @Emperor Borg Drone share a great deal of overlap. That now closed thread spawned, caught fire, and was shut down all while I slept, and several comments were apparently deleted. As a result, I cannot speak to what all was said, nor can I claim to have really read too much that survived because going in knowing comments were disabled made it impossible for me to engage, because I knew if I read too deeply I'd WANT to engage. That was disappointing.
I'm happy to know that I'm not the only one who felt that way about it. Sometimes in a context where most of an issue revolves around the things that were left unsaid, it's difficult to be sure on how to interpret it.
But right now I'm the one derailing this thread and since it's a thread that I like a lot, I wouldn't want the discussion to get out of hand and risk it to get closed, so I think I'll stop commenting on this topic.
@Prime Lorca [10FH]
I have, I'm thinking about hibernating for the rest of it
If you live in the US, please don't. Everyone needs to get out and vote.
I don't, but I agree with you. The next elections where I live will probably be just as divisive, so it's more important than ever that people actually take the time to make a choice and vote.
I think our views on this @Emperor Borg Drone share a great deal of overlap. That now closed thread spawned, caught fire, and was shut down all while I slept, and several comments were apparently deleted. As a result, I cannot speak to what all was said, nor can I claim to have really read too much that survived because going in knowing comments were disabled made it impossible for me to engage, because I knew if I read too deeply I'd WANT to engage. That was disappointing.
I'm happy to know that I'm not the only one who felt that way about it. Sometimes in a context where most of an issue revolves around the things that were left unsaid, it's difficult to be sure on how to interpret it.
But right now I'm the one derailing this thread and since it's a thread that I like a lot, I wouldn't want the discussion to get out of hand and risk it to get closed, so I think I'll stop commenting on this topic.
It wouldn't hurt my feelings if this thread were closed. I think starting a new thread each month is preferable. Primarily to compartmentalize each campaign in its own place. It bothers me when I come back in to this thread and see irrelevant messages from the next month. And now because this month shows why it is even more necessary to compartmentalize each campaign. Normally, I hate to dictate where things should and shouldn't go on the forum (which is why I didn't speak up until now), but I think it's warranted this time.
@Prime Lorca [10FH]
I have, I'm thinking about hibernating for the rest of it
If you live in the US, please don't. Everyone needs to get out and vote.
I don't, but I agree with you. The next elections where I live will probably be just as divisive, so it's more important than ever that people actually take the time to make a choice and vote.
I think our views on this @Emperor Borg Drone share a great deal of overlap. That now closed thread spawned, caught fire, and was shut down all while I slept, and several comments were apparently deleted. As a result, I cannot speak to what all was said, nor can I claim to have really read too much that survived because going in knowing comments were disabled made it impossible for me to engage, because I knew if I read too deeply I'd WANT to engage. That was disappointing.
I'm happy to know that I'm not the only one who felt that way about it. Sometimes in a context where most of an issue revolves around the things that were left unsaid, it's difficult to be sure on how to interpret it.
But right now I'm the one derailing this thread and since it's a thread that I like a lot, I wouldn't want the discussion to get out of hand and risk it to get closed, so I think I'll stop commenting on this topic.
It wouldn't hurt my feelings if this thread were closed. I think starting a new thread each month is preferable. Primarily to compartmentalize each campaign in its own place. It bothers me when I come back in to this thread and see irrelevant messages from the next month. And now because this month shows why it is even more necessary to compartmentalize each campaign. Normally, I hate to dictate where things should and shouldn't go on the forum (which is why I didn't speak up until now), but I think it's warranted this time.
Funnily enough, it's the opposite for me. I like the fact that it's become a tradition to resuscitate this thread whenever a new campaign is close. In part because it's funny and in part because this way we have all of our speculations and suggestions for campaigns in one place. It would be interesting to see how often certain legendaries have been mentioned and if it will eventually lead to them being featured in a campaign
But I can see how it's a bit chaotic too.
Again, in my opinion, if they're not willing to openly take a position in favor of the LGBT+ community and they're not willing to give us a little bit of space (and time) on this forum, then they should not use us for their marketing.
@Prime Lorca [10FH]
I have, I'm thinking about hibernating for the rest of it
I think by having a campaign focussed on Pride, they are taking a stance, as evinced by some opinions against it it certainly speaks in favour of the LGBTQ+ community.
I don't think you need to provide a soap box in order to display support, sometimes a "you're welcome here" sign is enough in a world which all too frequently says otherwise, and can be far more inclusive that something that invites infighting.
Again, in my opinion, if they're not willing to openly take a position in favor of the LGBT+ community and they're not willing to give us a little bit of space (and time) on this forum, then they should not use us for their marketing.
@Prime Lorca [10FH]
I have, I'm thinking about hibernating for the rest of it
I think by having a campaign focussed on Pride, they are taking a stance, as evinced by some opinions against it it certainly speaks in favour of the LGBTQ+ community.
I don't think you need to provide a soap box in order to display support, sometimes a "you're welcome here" sign is enough in a world which all too frequently says otherwise, and can be far more inclusive that something that invites infighting.
I understand what you're saying and I respect it. I still think that doing a Pride campaign while treating pro-LGBT and anti-LGBT discourse in the same way on this forum and denying us a place for conversations on this topic feels hypocritical to me.
But I don't think we will be able to convince each other of our respective opinions, so there's no point in going on.
I also think that things might have gone a bit differently if this had not happened on Friday. I guess Shan closed the thread right when the first issues started because she knew that she wouldn't be around for the next 48 hours.
But let's get this thread back on topic!
What do you think the July campaign will be? Summer vacation?
I hope @DScottHewitt is OK, as he has been quiet lately.
1. STE 5* & DS9 4*. Those series need love, too.
2. If it's Dark Empath Troi, scratch #2 & tell @Banjo1012 I am (not) sorry.
3. Time is the ultimate resource.
LLAP
My phone blowed up. Got a tablet and a burner phone Monday, when I got 💰......
Thanx for the love!!!!!
🖖😁🖖😁🖖
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
This pair underscores the hopeful moments of Star Trek, without turning away from the darker times that preceded them.
Ingenuity & Elbow Grease
Medic Jett Reno and Rianna Mayweather
When the going gets tough, the tough get creative. Two MED/ENG characters may be overkill, particularly for such a rare skill combo. However, they're also great reminders of resourcefulness.
Welcome Arrivals
Seeking Spock & Captive Bashir
Rock Spock and the Shell Shock Doc arrive just in time to help ock. I mean "out." Both characters help brainstorm solutions to significant unexpected problems.
Contagious Catastrophe
Dereth or Sulan & Danara Pel
I'm including this hear because I wanted something more directly about fighting disease. But I'm not sure we want to celebrate health-care workers with a dedicated corpse or a face-harvesting villain.
Helping Hands
Dr. Pollard & Dr. Crusher
Simple pairing that drops a heavy theme to just focus on two hard-working doctors who are there when the going gets tough. To quote Pollard herself: "No, I'm gonna do a half-assed job because now's the perfect time."
How about a new Doctor M'Benga? Was only in one episode, but would have been the lead character in Gene Roddenberry's planned Star Trek Hope spin-off, set on a medical ship in the TOS Era. IIRC, the design sketches for the Hope led to the design of Bev's medical ship in "All Good Things".
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
It's also an odd choice to include a character who rejected eschewing cultural norms and a relationship with Dax as a paragon of Pride Month. She's like... almost anti-Pride in the show. I get what the network was after with the story, but there are better examples of actual, proud gay people in the Star Trek franchise. Give us Sulu or Jett Reno instead or something.
I'm not going to say too much, after how the other thread went. But, I do agree Jett Reno would have been a better choice, if they wanted a truly Pride representative female. That said, for the time of the show, as you said, the message was her feeling forced to reject Dax. Clearly, the message was "Shaming someone into denouncing their love through social pressure and societal "norms" is wrong." But, her being the "vessel" of that lesson makes the character a wrong choice now for Pride month Campaign purposes.
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
I might feel generous and give them my 10 bucks when I reach tier 100. Right now, it's a hard pass for me. Don't even remember the 5* character, I'm gonna have to look her up 😬.
So... even though Lenara makes it on a shuttle at 4/5 from time to time, most of us can agree that this was the very worst campaign char so far.
Will TP make it up on us or will they make us feel like Lenara was brilliant in comparison to what we will get next? Is that even possible?
Wir, die Mirror Tribbles [MiT] haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase und täglich 700 ISM.
Premium Campaigns have been trending downhill. Tier 6 Bashirs, Tier 10 Lenara. I'm gonna guess the next campaign is either One Zero Zero One, or a brand new 5* card with even worse stats than One Zero Zero One. As for the 4* free campaign, I'll guess it'll be someone who's already been given away ad-nauseam like Dominion Dukat or Section 31 Georgiou.
Premium Campaigns have been trending downhill. Tier 6 Bashirs, Tier 10 Lenara. I'm gonna guess the next campaign is either One Zero Zero One, or a brand new 5* card with even worse stats than One Zero Zero One. As for the 4* free campaign, I'll guess it'll be someone who's already been given away ad-nauseam like Dominion Dukat or Section 31 Georgiou.
If I put in my guess, it will either involve a Picard, for Patrick's birthday, or two from The Animated Series, since Lower Decks will premiere right towards the end of it. Efraim and Dot would be cool too. I loved that.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
Premium Campaigns have been trending downhill. Tier 6 Bashirs, Tier 10 Lenara. I'm gonna guess the next campaign is either One Zero Zero One, or a brand new 5* card with even worse stats than One Zero Zero One. As for the 4* free campaign, I'll guess it'll be someone who's already been given away ad-nauseam like Dominion Dukat or Section 31 Georgiou.
If I put in my guess, it will either involve a Picard, for Patrick's birthday, or two from The Animated Series, since Lower Decks will premiere right towards the end of it. Efraim and Dot would be cool too. I loved that.
Every one of those Short Treks is good. I loved E & D! And the one where Pike was a prisoner was really good. But, I think my most favoritest moment was discovering that Una is the very model of a modern major general!!!!!!
🖖🖖🏻🖖🏼🖖🏽🖖🏿
"The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."
That was a hoot.
I'm curious how many actors will end up in Star Trek from XMen. I have four right off the top of my head.
Edit- I meant four just from the first movie. Thought I'd finished typing, but was distracted by my sister and hadn't. Oops.
W.W. CarlislePlayed since January 20, 2019Captain Level- 99 (May 9, 2022)VIP 14Crew Quarters: 485/485Most recent/Lowest- Anbo-jyutsu Kyle Riker (1/5* Lvl 30) 5/29/23Immortalized x-866 5* x184, 4* x 490, 3* x91, 2* x62, and 1* x27Most recent Immortal - Tearful Janeway 4* 5/25/23Current non-event project- Improving my Science base skill. Retrieval Project- Mestral 1/5*
The problem is that if a player who has already written things like "a person claiming to be trans is like a human claiming to be a chicken" on this same forum highjacks a thread that (mostly) LGBT+ players use to discuss the Pride Month campaign to incessantly repeat how he doesn't want a Pride campaign at all (instead of just creating his own thread for that) and the official reaction from the admins is to close down the thread, that doesn't feel like they're supporting the community that they just used for their marketing.
Again, if their official policy on this is "all opinions are the same, we don't like politics, let's not discuss any of the things happening in the real world on this forum" that's fine. I think my fleet currently has an unspoken rule of that kind and it works. The Timelines Discord chat has an official rule of that kind, where you get a warning if you even just mention a politician's name. And it works very well (that's probably one of the most welcoming and peaceful online communities I've ever been part of).
But then they shouldn't do a Pride Month campaign. Because if they do, they're sort of implying that they support the LGBT+ community and their cause and in this case I expect them to at least try to live up to that statement.
Thing is, LGBTQ+ is a complex subject, with a lot of factions within and without pursuing agendas not necessarily coming from a positive place for diversity as a whole.
I'm not sure this forum is suitable for those debates, beyond combatting ignorance.
Someone wishing to proclaim "a person claiming to be trans is like a human claiming to be a chicken" is entitled to their view, they're not entitled to have it unchallenged though as it comes from a position of ignorance.
But, saying that, educating them may not change their mind. People like to hold on to their safety blankets, usually to protect themselves from some deep seated issues and insecurities (not necessarily being in any closets either). So at some point you've got to accept that and move on.
And it's not just people outside the LGBTQ+ community, inside there is plenty of fear and ignorance too - witness how hostile some lesbian groups are to trans, and how some trans groups are hostile to any studies that don't agree with them.
So, it's good to see TP supporting Pride, but equally I get why debates would be clamped down on. There's a difference between a company taking a stance, either from a genuinely moral position or virtue signalling (I am hoping TP are doing the former) and allowing varying opinions and deep seated beliefs tear apart an online community.
The internet is full of places where if you disagree with someone, you're now the "enemy" no matter what else you may agree on, let's not make this place another one of those where it's all or nothing factions squabbling endlessly.
I'm not debating any of the things you say (even though I don't completely agree with all of them).
But I stand by my point that if a company uses my community for marketing purposes, then I expect them to "give something back" by publicly standing on our side and allowing us some space to have conversations on this topic.
Otherwise they shouldn't use us for their marketing.
Then again, I also accept the positions of those who say that any kind of representation and acceptance is better than no representation and acceptance at all.
But I would wish for something better than that in 2020.
I was with you until that last line.
Have you met 2020?
Comments
I personally don't have any issue with the theme or with the choice of Lenara. I don't even have an issue with companies using the LGBT+ community for pure marketing strategies (visibility is still better than nothing).
However, if the latter is the case, I at least expect them to be willing to leave a space for conversations on this topic and to publicly take the side of the LGBT+ community and defend their choice to represent them.
I feel like the opposite has happened in the closed thread.
That being said, I would be just as fine with it if they never touched the topic. I just don't like the idea of a company benefitting from an LGBT+ themed marketing, while simultaneously telling us that they don't really care about what we think or what others think about us and that they'd rather not have those conversations at all. Because even though that wasn't said explicitly (and maybe wasn't meant that way) it's the messages that I got out of it.
And so I think the thread was closed proactively, before things devolved too much. Minds which hold such beliefs one way or the other can't really be changed by words alone, imo. Personal experiences and one's deeply felt emotions make for strong convictions that repeated debate has limited, if not zero, effect upon. Also, to your other concern, Shan's final comment on the subject came across to me, anyway, as very much defending the choices that were made.
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
The problem is that if a player who has already written things like "a person claiming to be trans is like a human claiming to be a chicken" on this same forum highjacks a thread that (mostly) LGBT+ players use to discuss the Pride Month campaign to incessantly repeat how he doesn't want a Pride campaign at all (instead of just creating his own thread for that) and the official reaction from the admins is to close down the thread, that doesn't feel like they're supporting the community that they just used for their marketing.
Again, if their official policy on this is "all opinions are the same, we don't like politics, let's not discuss any of the things happening in the real world on this forum" that's fine. I think my fleet currently has an unspoken rule of that kind and it works. The Timelines Discord chat has an official rule of that kind, where you get a warning if you even just mention a politician's name. And it works very well (that's probably one of the most welcoming and peaceful online communities I've ever been part of).
But then they shouldn't do a Pride Month campaign. Because if they do, they're sort of implying that they support the LGBT+ community and their cause and in this case I expect them to at least try to live up to that statement.
Thing is, LGBTQ+ is a complex subject, with a lot of factions within and without pursuing agendas not necessarily coming from a positive place for diversity as a whole.
I'm not sure this forum is suitable for those debates, beyond combatting ignorance.
Someone wishing to proclaim "a person claiming to be trans is like a human claiming to be a chicken" is entitled to their view, they're not entitled to have it unchallenged though as it comes from a position of ignorance.
But, saying that, educating them may not change their mind. People like to hold on to their safety blankets, usually to protect themselves from some deep seated issues and insecurities (not necessarily being in any closets either). So at some point you've got to accept that and move on.
And it's not just people outside the LGBTQ+ community, inside there is plenty of fear and ignorance too - witness how hostile some lesbian groups are to trans, and how some trans groups are hostile to any studies that don't agree with them.
So, it's good to see TP supporting Pride, but equally I get why debates would be clamped down on. There's a difference between a company taking a stance, either from a genuinely moral position or virtue signalling (I am hoping TP are doing the former) and allowing varying opinions and deep seated beliefs tear apart an online community.
The internet is full of places where if you disagree with someone, you're now the "enemy" no matter what else you may agree on, let's not make this place another one of those where it's all or nothing factions squabbling endlessly.
I'm not debating any of the things you say (even though I don't completely agree with all of them).
But I stand by my point that if a company uses my community for marketing purposes, then I expect them to "give something back" by publicly standing on our side and allowing us some space to have conversations on this topic.
Otherwise they shouldn't use us for their marketing.
Then again, I also accept the positions of those who say that any kind of representation and acceptance is better than no representation and acceptance at all.
But I would wish for something better than that in 2020.
I was with you until that last line.
Have you met 2020?
It's not about what you, or any other individual, debates, it's about the forum community as a whole.
LGBTQ+ debates aren't like debates about if the earth is flat, or if gravity is a thing, they're very nuanced, open to misunderstanding and there's an awful lot of opinion and high dudgeon both inside and outside the LGBTQ+ community over things.
In a quiet debate debate between a couple of people over a nice pint, that can lead to raised voices, where ruffled feathers can easily be smoothed. In an online forum? Lines get drawn, trenches get dug and resentment snowballs and it can be months before grudges fade.
To paraphrase Men In Black, an individual is smart, but a group are dumb, panicky animals. And I like to think social media has proven that to be as much the case online as it is in real life.
So, having the debates in here is going to be more work than poor Shan needs, and likely harmful to the community as a whole.
And IMO, it's not about any kind of representation, it's about where it's appropriate.
This forum is mostly light and frothy, there are plenty of spots more suited to debate on heavier material than the artwork of a card, or what cards are in the next campaign.
Beyond the odd need to clamp down on an ignorant remark, I don't think this forum needs that on any subject.
Edit: Please don't take this as me saying you shouldn't be out and proud on here, anything but, but that actual deeper debates are probably not the best here. And I've taken part in some in the past.
@Prime Lorca [10FH]
I have, I'm thinking about hibernating for the rest of it
If you live in the US, please don't. Everyone needs to get out and vote.
I don't, but I agree with you. The next elections where I live will probably be just as divisive, so it's more important than ever that people actually take the time to make a choice and vote.
I'm happy to know that I'm not the only one who felt that way about it. Sometimes in a context where most of an issue revolves around the things that were left unsaid, it's difficult to be sure on how to interpret it.
But right now I'm the one derailing this thread and since it's a thread that I like a lot, I wouldn't want the discussion to get out of hand and risk it to get closed, so I think I'll stop commenting on this topic.
It wouldn't hurt my feelings if this thread were closed. I think starting a new thread each month is preferable. Primarily to compartmentalize each campaign in its own place. It bothers me when I come back in to this thread and see irrelevant messages from the next month. And now because this month shows why it is even more necessary to compartmentalize each campaign. Normally, I hate to dictate where things should and shouldn't go on the forum (which is why I didn't speak up until now), but I think it's warranted this time.
Funnily enough, it's the opposite for me. I like the fact that it's become a tradition to resuscitate this thread whenever a new campaign is close. In part because it's funny and in part because this way we have all of our speculations and suggestions for campaigns in one place. It would be interesting to see how often certain legendaries have been mentioned and if it will eventually lead to them being featured in a campaign
But I can see how it's a bit chaotic too.
I think by having a campaign focussed on Pride, they are taking a stance, as evinced by some opinions against it it certainly speaks in favour of the LGBTQ+ community.
I don't think you need to provide a soap box in order to display support, sometimes a "you're welcome here" sign is enough in a world which all too frequently says otherwise, and can be far more inclusive that something that invites infighting.
I understand what you're saying and I respect it. I still think that doing a Pride campaign while treating pro-LGBT and anti-LGBT discourse in the same way on this forum and denying us a place for conversations on this topic feels hypocritical to me.
But I don't think we will be able to convince each other of our respective opinions, so there's no point in going on.
I also think that things might have gone a bit differently if this had not happened on Friday. I guess Shan closed the thread right when the first issues started because she knew that she wouldn't be around for the next 48 hours.
But let's get this thread back on topic!
What do you think the July campaign will be? Summer vacation?
My phone blowed up. Got a tablet and a burner phone Monday, when I got 💰......
Thanx for the love!!!!!
🖖😁🖖😁🖖
How about a new Doctor M'Benga? Was only in one episode, but would have been the lead character in Gene Roddenberry's planned Star Trek Hope spin-off, set on a medical ship in the TOS Era. IIRC, the design sketches for the Hope led to the design of Bev's medical ship in "All Good Things".
I'm not going to say too much, after how the other thread went. But, I do agree Jett Reno would have been a better choice, if they wanted a truly Pride representative female. That said, for the time of the show, as you said, the message was her feeling forced to reject Dax. Clearly, the message was "Shaming someone into denouncing their love through social pressure and societal "norms" is wrong." But, her being the "vessel" of that lesson makes the character a wrong choice now for Pride month Campaign purposes.
Will TP make it up on us or will they make us feel like Lenara was brilliant in comparison to what we will get next? Is that even possible?
"We're thrilled to announce our next Campaign, featuring Forra Gegen and Grilka!"
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
I should be able to do it next Monday though!
Thanx for the update, Shan. We understand that your bosses have kept you busy lately! What with handing you a basket of life hand grenades.....
If I put in my guess, it will either involve a Picard, for Patrick's birthday, or two from The Animated Series, since Lower Decks will premiere right towards the end of it. Efraim and Dot would be cool too. I loved that.
Every one of those Short Treks is good. I loved E & D! And the one where Pike was a prisoner was really good. But, I think my most favoritest moment was discovering that Una is the very model of a modern major general!!!!!!
🖖🖖🏻🖖🏼🖖🏽🖖🏿
I'm curious how many actors will end up in Star Trek from XMen. I have four right off the top of my head.
Edit- I meant four just from the first movie. Thought I'd finished typing, but was distracted by my sister and hadn't. Oops.
I love this picture and caption.