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Key information about the event: Breakthrough - 04/12

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  • S31S31 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    NivenFres wrote: »
    Has anyone noticed the new 2* T'Pol has Starfleet rank insignia in her art, but got the High Command trait instead of Starfleet?

    Yeah I'm annoyed at that, she was going to possibly be my new Festive Jadzia but since DB screwed up and didn't get her Starfleet despite her uniform having that insignia, then we can't use her on MWF cadets. I feel like she's also missing a few traits although I haven't researched them yet. Perhaps tactician? That might be a trait all T'Pol versions need, she's very tactical throughout the whole series.

    She's definitely missing the Federation trait, as is Vulcan Bride T'Pol.

    Not missing Federation, since both versions should predate the formation of the Federation. This should apply to most Enterprise crew.

    I don't know, they were part of Federation at the final scene of the show.

    If we’re going to get technical about it, I think Archer signed the COP (Coalition of Planets) which is why the STT character is called C.O.P. Founder Archer. Of course this is the precursor for the UFP (United Federation of Planets) but all the ENT characters (as shown on the show... they probably lived long enough, other than Trip, to see the Federation) predate the Federation’s founding so it actually makes sense that ENT characters should not have the Federation trait.

    It wasn't said what was the charter but in the cannon

    - Federation was founded in 2161
    - that last episode is happening in 2161

    It doesn't really make any sense that COP is founded in 2161 and then just after few months they create The UFP.

    It would take years of negotiations for creating THE UFP.

    I think that COP was founded in 2155 in the two part Terra Prime/Demons when Archer gave that speech about reaching stars.
  • TcalTcal ✭✭✭
    Please don't let T'pol be DIP/MED! Please don't let T'pol be DIP/MED
  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tcal wrote: »
    Please don't let T'pol be DIP/MED! Please don't let T'pol be DIP/MED

    Stats have been up for almost 4 hours now.
  • TcalTcal ✭✭✭
    Dralix wrote: »
    Tcal wrote: »
    Please don't let T'pol be DIP/MED! Please don't let T'pol be DIP/MED

    Stats have been up for almost 4 hours now.

    Oh really? Where? I am not seeing it at the beginning of the thread like it usually is
  • NivenFresNivenFres ✭✭✭✭
    Tcal wrote: »
    Dralix wrote: »
    Tcal wrote: »
    Please don't let T'pol be DIP/MED! Please don't let T'pol be DIP/MED

    Stats have been up for almost 4 hours now.

    Oh really? Where? I am not seeing it at the beginning of the thread like it usually is

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  • Paund SkummPaund Skumm ✭✭✭✭✭
    NivenFres wrote: »
    Has anyone noticed the new 2* T'Pol has Starfleet rank insignia in her art, but got the High Command trait instead of Starfleet?

    Yeah I'm annoyed at that, she was going to possibly be my new Festive Jadzia but since DB screwed up and didn't get her Starfleet despite her uniform having that insignia, then we can't use her on MWF cadets. I feel like she's also missing a few traits although I haven't researched them yet. Perhaps tactician? That might be a trait all T'Pol versions need, she's very tactical throughout the whole series.

    She's definitely missing the Federation trait, as is Vulcan Bride T'Pol.

    Not missing Federation, since both versions should predate the formation of the Federation. This should apply to most Enterprise crew.

    I don't know, they were part of Federation at the final scene of the show.

    If we’re going to get technical about it, I think Archer signed the COP (Coalition of Planets) which is why the STT character is called C.O.P. Founder Archer. Of course this is the precursor for the UFP (United Federation of Planets) but all the ENT characters (as shown on the show... they probably lived long enough, other than Trip, to see the Federation) predate the Federation’s founding so it actually makes sense that ENT characters should not have the Federation trait.

    It wasn't said what was the charter but in the cannon

    - Federation was founded in 2161
    - that last episode is happening in 2161

    It doesn't really make any sense that COP is founded in 2161 and then just after few months they create The UFP.

    It would take years of negotiations for creating THE UFP.

    I think that COP was founded in 2155 in the two part Terra Prime/Demons when Archer gave that speech about reaching stars.

    Yeah, it doesn’t make sense... but there you have it... it’s one of those “inconsistencies” in the canon.
    Archer's command of Enterprise ended in 2161, after which he signed the charter ratifying the Coalition of Planets, which ultimately lead to the formation of the United Federation of Planets. (ENT: "These Are the Voyages...")

    Counselor Deanna Troi's line in "These Are the Voyages...", in which she states "this alliance will give birth to the Federation" suggests that the charter which Archer was to sign at that point in 2161 was not the Federation Charter, but rather the charter of the Coalition that led to the Federation's incorporation. Since the Federation has already been confirmed to have been incorporated in 2161, this would seem to indicate that the Coalition gave way to the UFP within the same year. It is also possible that the Coalition of Planets was simply renamed the United Federation of Planets later in the year, in which case, the charter which Archer is about to sign in this episode may be considered the Federation Charter
  • edited April 2018
    Hmm...DB creative liscense I suppose.
    h3t3u3d66nrz.jpeg
  • [DC] Principia[DC] Principia ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Archer's command of Enterprise ended in 2161, after which he signed the charter ratifying the Coalition of Planets, which ultimately lead to the formation of the United Federation of Planets. (ENT: "These Are the Voyages...")

    Counselor Deanna Troi's line in "These Are the Voyages...", in which she states "this alliance will give birth to the Federation" suggests that the charter which Archer was to sign at that point in 2161 was not the Federation Charter, but rather the charter of the Coalition that led to the Federation's incorporation. Since the Federation has already been confirmed to have been incorporated in 2161, this would seem to indicate that the Coalition gave way to the UFP within the same year. It is also possible that the Coalition of Planets was simply renamed the United Federation of Planets later in the year, in which case, the charter which Archer is about to sign in this episode may be considered the Federation Charter

    I wouldn't necessarily say this represents an inconsistency any more than the USA having the Continental Congress as its provisional government from 1774 to 1781 (even though most would say the US didn't exist as a legal separate entity until 1776 at the earliest, and possibly not until Cornwallis' surrender in 1781 or maybe even the Treaty of Paris in 1783), then the Articles of Confederation becoming the laws under which the US operated until the adoption of the Constitution in 1789.
  • [DC] Principia[DC] Principia ✭✭✭✭
    Hmm...DB creative liscense I suppose.
    h3t3u3d66nrz.jpeg

    You make a good point - I can't go back and edit my post, but if T'Pol's got that daft name patch from These Are The Voyages on her chest as well as the pips, then she even more should have the Sciences piping, her hair should be different, and there'd be patches on both arms.

    Well, it's Timelines, maybe this is supposed to be T'Pol from some alternate timeline. ;D

    I'm just happy it's good-looking, if not really screen-accurate.
  • Paund SkummPaund Skumm ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    I wouldn't necessarily say this represents an inconsistency any more than the USA having the Continental Congress as its provisional government from 1774 to 1781 (even though most would say the US didn't exist as a legal separate entity until 1776 at the earliest, and possibly not until Cornwallis' surrender in 1781 or maybe even the Treaty of Paris in 1783), then the Articles of Confederation becoming the laws under which the US operated until the adoption of the Constitution in 1789.

    I thinks that’s the point. The Continental Congress ratified the Declaration of Independence on 4 July 1776 giving the “official” formal start of the United States as a political entity. All the other dates you mention are generally not seen as the “founding” of the USA.

    While there may have discussions and negotiations about founding the COP in 2155 as outlined in ENT, the official founding documents were signed by Archer (and others) in 2161. How this matches with the founding of the Federation the same year may be just a historical adjustment saying whenever the name changed later, that was technically the founding of the Federation.

    For the USA, they did have a war of independence to fight (rebellion if you are British) and so forth which is not the case for the Federation. The more analogous comparison might be the EU which started with the European coal and steel community (ECSC) between Germany, France, Italy and Benelux in 1950 ratified by the Treat of Paris in 1951. It then changes to the European Economic Community (EEC) in 1957 with the Treaty of Rome to become a customs union (one level integration higher than a free trade agreement) or the so-called “common market” and then slowly expanded with other countries like the UK joining in 1973. The actual EU was not formed until 1993 with the Treaty of Maastricht but all the previous entities like the EEC were essentially “rolled into” the EU. But most people would say that the EU started with it’s roots in 1950 or 51.

    The Federation clearly traces its roots to the original COP signing even though the name and maybe some of its “constitution” may have changed, were amended or even expanded as was the case in EU with the move from a simple industrial policy to custom union and now for many, a currency union as well.

    Still, that would mean that while you could debate whether COP Founder Archer should have the Federation trait, he is the earliest character that could possibly have it and all the other ENT characters (and episodes) prior to that shouldn’t have Federation as a trait.
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Siblin wrote: »
    So I’m contemplating not levelling wedding t’pol For the event. I’m not convinced she’s worth the chrons when I already have Amb. Sarek fffe.

    Thoughts?

    It's easy. If you like T'Pol you then FF/FE her because she is T'Pol.

    If you don't like then don't level her.

    And that is exactly how I approach the game. T’Pol was a great character and they developed her so well in that show. I’m totally geeked about two new versions of her.

  • [DC] Principia[DC] Principia ✭✭✭✭
    Still, that would mean that while you could debate whether COP Founder Archer should have the Federation trait, he is the earliest character that could possibly have it and all the other ENT characters (and episodes) prior to that shouldn’t have Federation as a trait.
    Absolutely. Starfleet, since DB now seem to have combined Earth Starfleet and Federation Starfleet as a single trait, the NX-01 Enterprise's human crew should all have it, and T'Pol for any versions as of Season 4.

    If COP Founder Archer gets Federation, then any TATV versions of the crew should have Federation... which Science Officer T'Pol *might* count as since they've saddled her with the goof-**tsk tsk** nametag thing from that holoprogram.
  • PenguinJimPenguinJim ✭✭✭✭✭
    You make a good point - I can't go back and edit my post, but if T'Pol's got that daft name patch from These Are The Voyages on her chest as well as the pips, then she even more should have the Sciences piping, her hair should be different, and there'd be patches on both arms.
    Huh, it's been a while, but I'd completely forgotten that she was trying to quit smoking at that point.
  • Shan wrote: »
    Event Name: Breakthrough
    Event Type: Galaxy Event
    Event Crew: Warship Tuvok 5* (New), Vulcan Wedding T'Pol 4* (New) and Lieutenant Valeris 4* (existing)
    Event Dates: Thursday 04/12 until Monday 04/16

    Mega Event recurrent featured crew: Surak 5* (New)

    Event factions: Bajoran, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire

    Bonus crew:
    • high bonus: event crew and Surak
    • small bonus: variants of Tuvok, variants of T'Pol, crew with the Vulcan trait, and crew with the Romulan trait.

    Shame, we really need a Legendary T'Pol.. Perhaps a Vulcan High Command T'Pol.

    I also vote for more Legendary Females, and not a Janeway js.. ;)
  • al103al103 ✭✭✭
    If COP Founder Archer gets Federation
    COP in essence is Federation in it's earliest stage. So Archer rightfully have it. Everybody from before COP rightfully don't.
  • [DC] Principia[DC] Principia ✭✭✭✭
    al103 wrote: »
    If COP Founder Archer gets Federation
    COP in essence is Federation in it's earliest stage. So Archer rightfully have it. Everybody from before COP rightfully don't.
    Which is exactly what I've said: only versions of crew that explicitly date to or after the COP began should even potentially have Federation.

    And because the artwork for Science Officer T'Pol - as much of a hodgepodge as it may be - has a nametag patch, which we only see on her or anyone else's Starfleet uniforms at the time of the COP's start, she *could* be considered Federation. COP Founder Archer and her are the only 2 ENT crew in the game currently who even might meet that criterion.
  • [10F] Belle'Anna [10F] Belle'Anna ✭✭✭✭✭
    The artwork on both T'Pol's is truly lovely. Thanks DB. I shall do my damnedest to keep Wedding T'Pol out for voyages and she'll probably be my new avatar for a while. She looks great, as have quite a few of the super-rares recently. Really looking forward to this event, even though I only need one star for Valeris.
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  • I wouldn't necessarily say this represents an inconsistency any more than the USA having the Continental Congress as its provisional government from 1774 to 1781 (even though most would say the US didn't exist as a legal separate entity until 1776 at the earliest, and possibly not until Cornwallis' surrender in 1781 or maybe even the Treaty of Paris in 1783), then the Articles of Confederation becoming the laws under which the US operated until the adoption of the Constitution in 1789.

    I thinks that’s the point. The Continental Congress ratified the Declaration of Independence on 4 July 1776 giving the “official” formal start of the United States as a political entity. All the other dates you mention are generally not seen as the “founding” of the USA.

    While there may have discussions and negotiations about founding the COP in 2155 as outlined in ENT, the official founding documents were signed by Archer (and others) in 2161. How this matches with the founding of the Federation the same year may be just a historical adjustment saying whenever the name changed later, that was technically the founding of the Federation.

    For the USA, they did have a war of independence to fight (rebellion if you are British) and so forth which is not the case for the Federation. The more analogous comparison might be the EU which started with the European coal and steel community (ECSC) between Germany, France, Italy and Benelux in 1950 ratified by the Treat of Paris in 1951. It then changes to the European Economic Community (EEC) in 1957 with the Treaty of Rome to become a customs union (one level integration higher than a free trade agreement) or the so-called “common market” and then slowly expanded with other countries like the UK joining in 1973. The actual EU was not formed until 1993 with the Treaty of Maastricht but all the previous entities like the EEC were essentially “rolled into” the EU. But most people would say that the EU started with it’s roots in 1950 or 51.

    The Federation clearly traces its roots to the original COP signing even though the name and maybe some of its “constitution” may have changed, were amended or even expanded as was the case in EU with the move from a simple industrial policy to custom union and now for many, a currency union as well.

    Still, that would mean that while you could debate whether COP Founder Archer should have the Federation trait, he is the earliest character that could possibly have it and all the other ENT characters (and episodes) prior to that shouldn’t have Federation as a trait.

    Maybe the better way to look at this is that while the USA was "founded" in 1776, the USA as we know it didn't come into existence until 1787 (when the Constitution was drafted). They didn't change the country's name, but very well could have.

    The COP is the beginning of what would later become the UFP, after some updates, but the connections would be very direct.
  • Paund SkummPaund Skumm ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    *sigh* I take full responsibility for nudging us down this ENT/Federation rabbit hole. Guys, I was wrong. I was demonstrably, indefensibly wrong. There's no wiggle room on this. This is the sorriest I have been for making a mistake since that time I thought we could run a George Foreman grill on my friend's Silverado's battery at the drive-in. (Entirely true.)

    While your mea culpa is appreciated, the fact remains many of us are now festering in this dark, dank, and poo infested rabbit hole with no sign of Alice anywhere... thanks a million bud 😜... and... wait... they still have drive-ins?
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wouldn't necessarily say this represents an inconsistency any more than the USA having the Continental Congress as its provisional government from 1774 to 1781 (even though most would say the US didn't exist as a legal separate entity until 1776 at the earliest, and possibly not until Cornwallis' surrender in 1781 or maybe even the Treaty of Paris in 1783), then the Articles of Confederation becoming the laws under which the US operated until the adoption of the Constitution in 1789.

    I thinks that’s the point. The Continental Congress ratified the Declaration of Independence on 4 July 1776 giving the “official” formal start of the United States as a political entity. All the other dates you mention are generally not seen as the “founding” of the USA.

    While there may have discussions and negotiations about founding the COP in 2155 as outlined in ENT, the official founding documents were signed by Archer (and others) in 2161. How this matches with the founding of the Federation the same year may be just a historical adjustment saying whenever the name changed later, that was technically the founding of the Federation.

    For the USA, they did have a war of independence to fight (rebellion if you are British) and so forth which is not the case for the Federation. The more analogous comparison might be the EU which started with the European coal and steel community (ECSC) between Germany, France, Italy and Benelux in 1950 ratified by the Treat of Paris in 1951. It then changes to the European Economic Community (EEC) in 1957 with the Treaty of Rome to become a customs union (one level integration higher than a free trade agreement) or the so-called “common market” and then slowly expanded with other countries like the UK joining in 1973. The actual EU was not formed until 1993 with the Treaty of Maastricht but all the previous entities like the EEC were essentially “rolled into” the EU. But most people would say that the EU started with it’s roots in 1950 or 51.

    The Federation clearly traces its roots to the original COP signing even though the name and maybe some of its “constitution” may have changed, were amended or even expanded as was the case in EU with the move from a simple industrial policy to custom union and now for many, a currency union as well.

    Still, that would mean that while you could debate whether COP Founder Archer should have the Federation trait, he is the earliest character that could possibly have it and all the other ENT characters (and episodes) prior to that shouldn’t have Federation as a trait.

    Maybe the better way to look at this is that while the USA was "founded" in 1776, the USA as we know it didn't come into existence until 1787 (when the Constitution was drafted). They didn't change the country's name, but very well could have.

    The COP is the beginning of what would later become the UFP, after some updates, but the connections would be very direct.

    Yes, this is a major sidetrack, but the Deceleration of Independence never establishes a single united government. A united group of 13 states declared their independence as 13 states.

    We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States;

    https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/declaration-transcript
  • For CardassiaFor Cardassia ✭✭✭✭✭
    *sigh* I take full responsibility for nudging us down this ENT/Federation rabbit hole. Guys, I was wrong. I was demonstrably, indefensibly wrong. There's no wiggle room on this. This is the sorriest I have been for making a mistake since that time I thought we could run a George Foreman grill on my friend's Silverado's battery at the drive-in. (Entirely true.)

    While your mea culpa is appreciated, the fact remains many of us are now festering in this dark, dank, and poo infested rabbit hole with no sign of Alice anywhere... thanks a million bud 😜... and... wait... they still have drive-ins?

    Yes! Although few and far between they're still around. It's possible that there isn't one near you I suppose, but some places do indeed have them.
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  • MagisseMagisse ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    I've never seen so much real-life history debate on a SciFi forum.
  • Paund SkummPaund Skumm ✭✭✭✭✭
    Magisse wrote: »
    I've never seen so much history debate on a SciFi forum.

    Says the man so fond of quoting Victor Hugo’s Les Miserables ... oh wait, I think that might be the Broadway musical version...
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    Magisse wrote: »
    I've never seen so much history debate on a SciFi forum.

    Says the man so fond of quoting Victor Hugo’s Les Miserables ... oh wait, I think that might be the Broadway musical version...

    Technically speaking Hugo's work is historical fiction.....
  • For CardassiaFor Cardassia ✭✭✭✭✭
    Magisse wrote: »
    I've never seen so much real-life history debate on a SciFi forum.

    I have, but I've never seen it be so civil :P
    “Treason, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.” - Elim Garak

    Cardassian wishlist:
    Tora Ziyal - Thanks!
    Natima Lang
    Empok Nor Garak
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  • MagisseMagisse ✭✭✭✭✭
    Magisse wrote: »
    I've never seen so much history debate on a SciFi forum.

    Says the man so fond of quoting Victor Hugo’s Les Miserables ... oh wait, I think that might be the Broadway musical version...

    Everybody raise a glass...
  • WebberoniWebberoni ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Has anybody else noticed that some of the crafting bonus crew traits seems to be incorrect, likely from a past event by accident? I am seeing traits like "chef" and "nurse", which don't fit with this event crew.
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    Webberoni wrote: »
    Has anybody else noticed that some of the crafting bonus crew traits seems to be incorrect, likely from a past event by accident? I am seeing traits like "chef" and "nurse", which don't fit with this event crew.

    Indeed. But this is not the first time that kind of thing has happened, either.
    Fleet: Starship Trista
    Captain Level: 95
    VIP Level: 12
    Unique Crew Immortalized: 525
    Collections Completed: Vulcan, Ferengi, Borg, Romulan, Cardassian, Uncommon, Rare, Veteran, Common, Engineered, Physician, Innovator, Inspiring, Diplomat, Jury Rigger, Gauntlet Legends
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